[1967100]

I have always considered citizenship tests to be a form of discrimination against newcomers to Canada. Why force a test on them if over 2/3rd of the Canadian citizens can't pass the test themselves? Does this mean citizens who don't know anything about Canada should have their citizenships stripped? I don't think so. So why are we doing this to immigrants?

[American Woman]

1967100, on Nov 16 2008, 11:14 AM, said:

Does this mean citizens who don't know anything about Canada should have their citizenships stripped?

I would think that natural-born citizens who went through the Canadian education system know a thing or two about Canada...

[charter.rights]

American Woman, on Nov 16 2008, 11:21 AM, said:

I would think that natural-born citizens who went through the Canadian education system know a thing or two about Canada...

Wrong. It would be better for natural-born Canadians to have to take a test periodically to keep their citizenship. Few Canadians really have a clue about what our country is really about. They know more about the US than a lot of Americans but very little about Canada.

[American Woman]

charter.rights, on Nov 16 2008, 11:28 AM, said:

Wrong. It would be better for natural-born Canadians to have to take a test periodically to keep their citizenship. Few Canadians really have a clue about what our country is really about. They know more about the US than a lot of Americans but very little about Canada.

If Canadians make it through the Canadian education system without knowing anything about Canada, rather than test natural-born citizens periodically, perhaps changes should be made in your education system. However, I would think at one point in their lives they knew enough about Canada to pass tests and move up to the next grade. Foreigners aren't required to "take a test periodically to keep their citizenship"-- they're just required to learn what I'm assuming is taught in your education system.

Citizenship to foreign born individuals is not a right. It is, however, a right of those born within a nation-- who are required be law to attend school and become educated. If someone wants citizenship in another country, then they should be expected to earn it.

This post has been edited by American Woman: 16 November 2008 - 09:25 AM

[noahbody]

What I would like to see being taught is the idea that if you break our laws, out you go. Unfortunately, we can't even get the likes of Jackie Tran out of the country.

[BC_chick]

We did that test in one of my university classes, and around 10% of us passed even though we had a lot of advantages that foreigners necessarily didn't. It made me wonder where all the immigrants are coming from if the test is so difficult.

I know that US immigration lawyers have a list of the jobs that provide a higher score than others - for example, if they're short on engineers one year, that's the job that gets a lot of points on the test. I assumed the Canadian test must be similar since it's so difficult to pass otherwise.

So to answer your question, if Canada does choose its immigrants in a similar fashion, I suppose the test is kind of a moot point when everything else is a guideline and your vocation is the deciding factor. Timed right with the Canadian markets, it's basically like playing the lottery and hoping your number is picked.

This post has been edited by BC_chick: 16 November 2008 - 12:06 PM

[American Woman]

To my knowledge, the U.S. citizenship test is a standard test for all applicants and has nothing to do with the job market. I'm thinking the job market would have more to do with who would be able to get a visa/work permit at any given time than with citizenship. One can even be granted permanent residency without becoming a citizen.

As a side note, I've taken sample tests and scored 100%.

Edited to add link to a sample test-- and like I had thought, it doesn't have anything to do with job markets.

This post has been edited by American Woman: 16 November 2008 - 12:17 PM

[BC_chick]

American Woman, on Nov 16 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

To my knowledge, the U.S. citizenship test is a standard test for all applicants and has nothing to do with the job market. I'm thinking the job market would have more to do with who would be able to get a visa/work permit at any given time than with citizenship. One can even be granted permanent residency without becoming a citizen.

Good point AW, you're right, I didn't clarify. Yes, the vocational list was, indeed, for a Green Card. But when you consider that citizenship is granted after a certain number of years of living in the country and paying taxes, it's the same thing really. If you have a job that's in demand, you can get the Green Card easier and that's your first step if you plan on becoming a citizen one day.

It's the same thing here, we have landed immigrants who, after a number of years, are allowed to apply for citizenship.

[American Woman]

I don't think it is really the same thing. I would expect there to be a lot more people wanting to work in a country for a period of time than there would be wanting to become citizens. Others live their whole life here, and I'm sure there, too, without ever desiring citizenship. And many who apply for citizenship are children of immigrants, children of people who have moved here/there, so the job market would have nothing to do with their personally applying for citizenship. Some are also granted residency for humanitarian reasons, too, and some of them end up applying for citizenship.

This post has been edited by American Woman: 16 November 2008 - 12:26 PM

[BC_chick]

American Woman, on Nov 16 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

As a side note, I've taken sample tests and scored 100%.

Edited to add link to a sample test-- and like I had thought, it doesn't have anything to do with job markets.

Strange, because I went through it personally years ago when I was dating an American and I was considering moving to the States. The immigration lawyer asked what I do for a living and what I've done in the past, and when I answered she said to list my former job as my primary one because it was in demand at the time and would serve me better.

As I said, I think both knowledge and vocation contribute, but in Canada, if our immigration test is so difficult that barely a quarter of our citizens pass (who know the Canadian system), then there's got to be something else that determining the outcome.

[American Woman]

BC_chick, on Nov 16 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

Strange, because I went through it personally years ago when I was dating an American and I was considering moving to the States. The immigration lawyer asked what I do for a living and what I've done in the past, and when I answered she said to list my former job as my primary one because it was in demand at the time and would serve me better.

As I said, I think both knowledge and vocation contribute, but in Canada, if our immigration test is so difficult that barely a quarter of our citizens pass (who know the Canadian system), then there's got to be something else that determining the outcome.

Moving to the States and becoming a citizen are two different things, though. What if you had married your boyfriend? You would have been able to live here then, and apply for citizenship after the required time even if you never worked. There are a lot of marriages where both spouses don't work, yet both can apply for citizenship after living in the country for the required period of time. I see that a lot in Toronto-- immigrants from the Middle East where the mother doesn't work, and the kids will be able to apply for citizenship eventually, too.

So the job market would have a bearing on the ability to get a green card, but it would have no bearing on the citizenship aspect-- ie: the difficulty of the test or the questions on the test.

This post has been edited by American Woman: 16 November 2008 - 12:38 PM

[BC_chick]

Thanks for the clarification AW. I learned something new!

[Mr.Canada]

charter.rights, on Nov 16 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

Wrong. It would be better for natural-born Canadians to have to take a test periodically to keep their citizenship. Few Canadians really have a clue about what our country is really about. They know more about the US than a lot of Americans but very little about Canada.

Can I get a cite for this please?

If you're going to make blanket statements than you owe us some citation to back up your words, otherwise it's just fluff and should be ignored by the rest of us who can tell the difference.

This post has been edited by Mr.Canada: 18 November 2008 - 10:05 AM

[g_bambino]

Mr.Canada, on Nov 18 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

Can I get a cite for this please?

If you're going to make blanket statements than you owe us some citation to back up your words, otherwise it's just fluff and should be ignored by the rest of us who can tell the difference.

I don't know about the claim regarding Canadians' knowledge of the US, but the Dominion Institute does a survey every Canada Day testing Canadians' ability with Canadian history, civics, and present-day issues. The results are usually pretty abysmal.

This post has been edited by g_bambino: 18 November 2008 - 01:05 PM

[snowdogs2010]

1967100, on Nov 16 2008, 08:14 AM, said:

I have always considered citizenship tests to be a form of discrimination against newcomers to Canada. Why force a test on them if over 2/3rd of the Canadian citizens can't pass the test themselves? Does this mean citizens who don't know anything about Canada should have their citizenships stripped? I don't think so. So why are we doing this to immigrants?

Then to get a canadian citizenship what should new immigrants have to do.