[maplesyrup]

For way too long the rich have been getting all the breaks in Canada. The NDP wants to restore fairness in Canada. And this the key to their balanced budget platform.

[maplesyrup]

NDP takes aim at highest earners

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The child tax benefit would be increased, and there would be more money for childcare, as the NDP proposes easing the financial burden on Canadian families.

Federal income tax would be eliminated for people earning under $15,000 a year.

NDP Leader Jack Layton, who released his party's platform in his hometown of Toronto, also promised that a New Democratic government would invest in the country's cities.

"Without that investment, things begin to break down," Layton said.

[willy]

Where do you get this stuff.

Cause and effect.

Having money may come from birth but most of the wealthy people I know work very hard.

Maplesyrup, communism doesn't work. Human behaviour is such that we are inherently selfish. Governments that created forced equality remove any incentive for achievement. Help us all if this ideology catches on.

We will have equality. All of us will be poor.

[maplesyrup]

willy......you right wingers need to stop labeling the NDP communist.

How would you like it if everytime Stephen Harper or Paul Martin opened their mouths someone said fascist?

Cool the nonsensical rhetoric please and debate the issues.

[willy]

Maplesyrup, I was not talking about the NDP. I was referring to your statement. (The Robin Hood thing) If you break it down to the premise, it is Marxist Communism.

E.g. The rich get too much; therefore we need fairness.

Fair = equality

Not equal opportunity but of actual resources.
This is Communism. State controlled wealth distribution based on existence and not merit.

[maplesyrup]

willy....give it up. Stephen Harper isn't a fascist, or is he?

[Kliege]

No Jack Layton is Maple

[Black Dog]

One question for willy: do you consider the current tax system to be fair and equitable?

The point of progressive taxation is simple: the wealthy have the overwhelming beneficiaries of the economic policies of the past few decades, such as high interest rates and a steadily decreasing top marginal tax rate.

Much of the tax burden has been shifted to lower and middle income Canadians, who not only must run businesses, work and raise families, but also provide the resources the government needs to supply services (services, I must add, that benefit all citizens).

Fairness and equality are not the same thing. An equal tax system would see everyone pay the same rate: however, a fair tax system ensures that people are taxed according to their ability to pay. That's your first error.

Your second is in equating wealth with merit. While I'm sure there are many hard-working rich folks out there, the simple fact is not all rich people worked for their wealth. Are the Bronfmans better people for inheriting their wealth? Is Belinda Stronach a harder worker than your average truck driver or school teacher?

One question for Kilege: do you even know what the word "fascist" means?

[willy]

Black Dog,
I have no error. I see the role of government differently than you. I see them there to serve the people and not the other way around. They spend my money.

Fair rarely adequately explains anything in the world. The world is not fair.

I ask of the government to be a good steward of my money and not paternal in nature.

A social safety net can help people up or become a way of life. No one deserves to live in poverty but how you remedy that is not to forcibly remove the wealth from your own population.

What is a reasonable tax rate? I have to work until late into June before I start making money. My taxes approach 50% of what I earn. If I am rich, does that mean I should pay 75% of what I earn? This is ridiculous.

The very rich do pay more taxes but at what point will this be enough.

Social inequity is not just a function of financial distribution; it is cultural, educational, structural, motivational, psychological, and ideological.

Tax the rich and they will just move and you will have less resources to address the needs of the most venerable.

Who will be left to invest in the country but the government on borrowed money?

BD, and Maplesyrup when was the last time you sent extra money to Ottawa or your province. If it is so easy to spend other peoples money why not spends your own.

[Black Dog]

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A social safety net can help people up or become a way of life. No one deserves to live in poverty but how you remedy that is not to forcibly remove the wealth from your own population.

Nobody becomes wealthy in a vacum. As appealing as the self-aggrandizing myth of th eself-made millionaire is, the reality is that no one gets anywhere without relying at some point on a service or institution paide for by tax dollars.

Taxes pay for more than just social programs (although, in this country, our social programs are very important). Taxes pay for roads, sewers, schools and countless other important services that we otherwise wouldn't have. Over the past 25 years, tax revenues have fallen while services have declined and infrastructure crumbled. That's not a coincidence.

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"Taxes are the price of civilization."-U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

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What is a reasonable tax rate? I have to work until late into June before I start making money. My taxes approach 50% of what I earn. If I am rich, does that mean I should pay 75% of what I earn? This is ridiculous

That's an amazing feat, given the average Canadian pays about 35 per cent of their income in taxes. You're certainly paying mor ethan your share, then. How generous of you.

Quote

Social inequity is not just a function of financial distribution; it is cultural, educational, structural, motivational, psychological, and ideological.

Which is precisely why, in an egalitarian and democratic society, steps must be taken to mitigate or eliminate these inequalities.

Quote

Tax the rich and they will just move and you will have less resources to address the needs of the most venerable.

The idea that only the wealthy can spur economic growth is a myth. The government and individuals and small businesses are fully capable of spurring economic growth, the government by investing in services and infrastructure, individuals by spending their money and the small businesses that are the real engine of the economy by expanding, growing and reinvesting.

As it stands, tax cuts which would reduce government revenues while maximizing the amount of wealth consolidated in the hands of a few poses the greater real threat to service delivery than the theoretical flight of the rich.

Quote

BD, and Maplesyrup when was the last time you sent extra money to Ottawa or your province. If it is so easy to spend other peoples money why not spends your own.

I pay my taxes. In fact I recently got a raise which bumped me up a bracket, meaning I pay more now. And you know what? I don't bitch about it, because i know that I wouldn't have my job if it weren't for the schools that taught me, the roads that took me there and the hospitals that kept me healthy. All paid for by taxes.

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I have no error. I see the role of government differently than you. I see them there to serve the people and not the other way around. They spend my money.

That's exactly how I see the government: it's there to provide services. We differ on how that is to be done and who is to be trusted to do it.

[maplesyrup]

Layton unveils details of the NDP platform

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In a speech to a hometown crowd in Toronto on Wednesday, the long-time city councillor said his party has an ambitious investment agenda focused on what he calls "positive choices."

"Our fiscal projections are reasonable and moderate," Layton said as he vowed to deliver five-straight balanced budgets.

This is the 21st century NDP with balanced budgets. Their program is going to appeal to a lot of middle-class and lower income voters.

[willy]

Quote

That's an amazing feat, given the average Canadian pays about 35 per cent of their income in taxes. You're certainly paying mor ethan your share, then. How generous of you.

Add up all the taxes. Income tax (provincial and federal), GST, gas, environmental (tires etc), licensing, health premiums, PST, user fees (national parks ect.), air port security, capital gains, gas tax, property and the extra costs of goods and services based on the corporate taxes business have to pay.

We pay a lot more than 35 cents on the dollar. I was being low at 50 cents.

I live in the house I can aford, not the one I would like. We need to balance the notion of want and need.

[maplesyrup]

NDP leaves Tories, Grits behind with platform

Quote

While the NDP is promising a Canada where no one is left behind, today it left behind the two other national parties in releasing its election platform, which calls for cutting tuition fees and restoring the federal commitment to health-care spending to 25 per cent while at the same time balancing budgets.

The platform also promises no income tax for those making less than $15,000 a year and increasing taxes on those making over $250,000. 

"We are focused on setting out a positive choice that's about investing in a green economy, health care, education and the other key priorities of the people of Canada," said NDP Leader Jack Layton. "Our platform highlights the fundamental difference between the Liberals and Conservatives and ourselves. They focus on tax cuts - we focus on services for people."

The NDP estimates its platform will represent a net change to the federal government's budget of $61 billion over the next five years.

The party plans $79 billion in new spending, but predicts this will be offset by "steps to recover tax revenues identified as uncollected by the auditor-general," which they estimate are worth $8.5 billion.

The party will also increase taxes by $9.5 billion in what it calls "a package of fair tax measures." This includes rolling back corporate tax cuts announced by the Liberals in the 2000 federal budget, increasing taxes on those who make over $200,000 a year and reinstating an inheritance tax on estates over $1 million

At least one party in this election is prepared to discuss and run on issues.

[playfullfellow]

Read the article MS. Saw a lot of words like increase predict, estimate and new spending. The new spending amounts to an increase of 79 billion dollars. With their predicted uncollected (no definate numbers listed here) taxes and increased taxes (taxes coming from the rich and companies we work for), we get a total of 18 billion recovered. So that means there is a further 61 billion over 5 years to come up with or 12.2 billion dollars per year. Now, Layton has stated where he intends to get some of the money he intends to spend but I do not see where he is going to come up with the other 61 billion? The only other alternative I see is taxing the middle class again. I see nothing of debt reduction, nothing about exactly where this 61 billion is going to go aside from healthcare. Ooooppppppssss, sorry, I forgot to mention extra childcare benefits that I seem to have read somewhere but there were no definative numbers. IMO, this looks like a whole bunch of vote buying and promises that may be very hard to keep. I would certainly like to see more definate numbers and a lot less predicted numbers, this is an election and not a seance.

[maplesyrup]

What is the obsession with the debt?

Canada's infrastructure is in dire need of assistance before it crumbles. There is a time and place for everything.

Let's build some housing for the homeless, or low income people, etc., and stop being so greedy for ourselves.