161 replies to this topic

[Moonbox]

My view of this is it doesn't really matter. With that being said, I think it IS something people should know about and we can let Canadians decide how they feel.

[bk59]

I see a conflict! I think some folks are not seeing the whole picture.

It has nothing to do with May being a "nice" person. It has everything to do with having a common heritage!

How can someone who grew to adulthood in a different country have a "gut" feel for being a Canadian?

Only those who believe that Canada HAS NO culture might think that this is a non-factor.

And that, sadly, is part of why this country has some deep problems.

What is this "gut" feel for being a Canadian that you are referring to? Someone who grew to adulthood in Newfoundland will have a different "gut" feel for being a Canadian than someone who grew up in BC (or Montreal or rural Ontario or Calgary or the NWT or etc.).

Canada has a culture, but that culture does not require that you be born within our borders in order to participate in and contribute to that culture. I happen to believe that Canadians are smart enough to look at a politician and see if he or she represents their views and vote accordingly. There is no need to protect Canadians from someone just because they were not born here.

This is not a non-factor, but it is close enough that it really does not matter.

[Wild Bill]

What is this "gut" feel for being a Canadian that you are referring to? Someone who grew to adulthood in Newfoundland will have a different "gut" feel for being a Canadian than someone who grew up in BC (or Montreal or rural Ontario or Calgary or the NWT or etc.).

Canada has a culture, but that culture does not require that you be born within our borders in order to participate in and contribute to that culture. I happen to believe that Canadians are smart enough to look at a politician and see if he or she represents their views and vote accordingly. There is no need to protect Canadians from someone just because they were not born here.

This is not a non-factor, but it is close enough that it really does not matter.

Sorry, I missed your point. I was daydreaming about watching all the flags waved for OTHER countries on my main street, during the China Olympics.

I wasn't sawing "zzzz's", I was sawing "hyphens"!

[White Doors]

Sorry, I missed your point. I was daydreaming about watching all the flags waved for OTHER countries on my main street, during the China Olympics.

I wasn't sawing "zzzz's", I was sawing "hyphens"!

LOL

[bk59]

Sorry, I missed your point. I was daydreaming about watching all the flags waved for OTHER countries on my main street, during the China Olympics.

I wasn't sawing "zzzz's", I was sawing "hyphens"!

Don't worry about it. Since your original crisis was also a product of your imagination it is not surprising that you responded by telling us about your day dreams.

[Wild Bill]

Don't worry about it. Since your original crisis was also a product of your imagination it is not surprising that you responded by telling us about your day dreams.

Sorry to disappoint you but those flags and those hyphens are and were not daydreams.

Perhaps you live on a different street but please don't ask me to not believe what I've seen for years with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

It's amazing how such observations as mine are quickly dismissed as merely anecdotal. All such observations... thousands and thousands of them!

To be fair, it's almost impossible to scientifically gather such stats. Most people don't want to admit publicly that they place Canada 2nd in their hearts. It can cause problems if you're too obvious.

I still remember being almost badgered by a federal employee in the early 80's trying to get me to cite something other than Canadian for my ethnicity. She asked about my parents, my grandparents and so on. Finally I told her "My ancestors came over from Ireland and Scotland on the good ship Hector, which landed in Pictou, Nova Scotia in the 1690's. How long does my family have to be here to be called Canadian?

She didn't hear my last question. She had already triumphantly cried "Ah ha! Irish and Scottish!", scribbled it down and moved on.

[bk59]

Sorry to disappoint you but those flags and those hyphens are and were not daydreams.

Perhaps you live on a different street but please don't ask me to not believe what I've seen for years with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

It's amazing how such observations as mine are quickly dismissed as merely anecdotal. All such observations... thousands and thousands of them!

My aren't we quick to think the worst of others on this site.

I did not dismiss your observations. I said your original crisis was a product of your imagination. Referring to your belief that because someone is born somewhere else this would present such a conflict of interest that they could not possibly serve Canada. You have not given a real reason to support why someone's place of birth should disqualify them.

I then said that you responded to my questions by telling us about your day dreams. Which, if you read your post, is exactly what you did. Don't blame me for what you wrote. I did not say that you never saw flags from other countries. I said that I was not surprised that your response to my questions was "I was daydreaming".

Maybe if you did not judge others so quickly you could see that nothing we have seen from May so far indicates that she is a secret US agent out to sabotage Canada.

[g_bambino]

It has nothing to do with May being a "nice" person. It has everything to do with having a common heritage!

How can someone who grew to adulthood in a different country have a "gut" feel for being a Canadian?

Oohhh... I see where the root of this worry lies: xenophobia. Anyone who wasn't born here can't be a real Canadian, right? Or, there has to be a prescribed amount of childhood spent in the country before being officially allowed to be Canadian. Narrowing down the notions of nationality and identity to merely birthplace or law is such a myopic way to look at a complex situation; there are numerous possible circumstances in May's case alone that could make her "more Canadian" than is being aluded to here. And besides, who cares? She swore her allegiance to the Queen when she became a citizen, she would swear allegiance to the Queen should she be elected to parliament, and she would swear allegiance to the Queen should she be appointed to the Privy Council to act as Prime Minister. In other words, regardless of where she was born, she would be, in the hypothetical situation of her becoming PM, bound to follow our laws and customs. If she starts to push the executive to adopt policies detrimental to Canada, she loses the confidence of the House; if she starts to act in an illegal manner, she's dismissed from office; and, if she speaks only Hindustani and tells Canadians they're a bunch of lumberjack heathens destined for Hell, I doubt the Green Party would get many votes anyway.

[Moonlight Graham]

Oohhh... I see where the root of this worry lies: xenophobia. Anyone who wasn't born here can't be a real Canadian, right? Or, there has to be a prescribed amount of childhood spent in the country before being officially allowed to be Canadian. Narrowing down the notions of nationality and identity to merely birthplace or law is such a myopic way to look at a complex situation; there are numerous possible circumstances in May's case alone that could make her "more Canadian" than is being aluded to here.

Its not about xenophobia, its about conflict of interest. I think the fact that she is American, a close neighbour, might be skewing opinions. What if she were born in Italy and became PM, and then Mussolini Jr was born & for whatever reason World War III started & Canada went to war with Italy? Do you not see a possible conflict of interest there? The fact that she has (i assume) dual-citizenship with her former country? The fact that she almost certainly has family living there? Old friends living there? Do you not think that this would influence her decisions? Do you think she would make the same decisions if she did not spend the first 18 years of her life in that country?

She swore her allegiance to the Queen when she became a citizen, she would swear allegiance to the Queen should she be elected to parliament, and she would swear allegiance to the Queen should she be appointed to the Privy Council to act as Prime Minister.

She also swore allegiance to the flag of the United States of America for 18 years, and unless i'm mistaken she probably still has her U.S. citizenship. Conflict of interest.

Just because somebody is a Canadian citizen, it doesn't necessarily mean they are 100% loyal to Canada and Canada alone. I don't care if what i'm about to say isn't "politcally correct", but you can't tell me that, for example, somebody who lived in another country for 40 years but has become a Canadian citizen 3 years ago is as loyal to Canada as someone who has been born and raised in Canada and lived here for 40 years. All people & cases are different, but you get my point.

Just my opinion, but i guess if she had a significant chance of becoming PM, word of her foreign roots would be more well-known & Canadians would decide with their ballots if she was worthy to be PM or not. I'm sure it would raise a major stink like it did with Michelle Jean.

[g_bambino]

Its not about xenophobia, its about conflict of interest.

That's not what was originally said; the point of concern that was raised was about May not having lived in Canada long enough to qualify as Canadian enough to be the Prime Minister (which is all completely hypothetical, obviously). Your statement, on the other hand, doesn't necessarily relate to the topic of May's past; it all depends on what interest it is that's being conflicted by another. If the conflict is that great, well, why then is she PM? I would hope that Canadians would vote for her party based on her party's policies, not on the origin of its leader.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Sorry, I missed your point. I was daydreaming about watching all the flags waved for OTHER countries on my main street, during the China Olympics.

Russian flags were waved on my street

BTW, Russia finished 3rd by the number of medals

Can I still run for Pres.... Prime Minister?

How about Governor General?

Edited by PoliticalCitizen, 12 September 2008 - 11:18 AM.

[Wild Bill]

Russian flags were waved on my street

BTW, Russia finished 3rd by the number of medals

Can I still run for Pres.... Prime Minister?

How about Governor General?

How many Canadian flags were waved in Russia?

[g_bambino]

How many Canadian flags were waved in Russia?

Do you know?

[PoliticalCitizen]

How many Canadian flags were waved in Russia?

If we ever get to the point (God forbid) that there would be political and economical migrants from Canada to Russia - we can come back to your question...

As of right now I think the answer is obvious...

But if we come back to the topic - Green Party doesn't even exist (AFAIK) in USA. If May is representing interests of a political body other than Canadian I would guess this should be EU where Greens are strong.

[Wild Bill]

Maybe if you did not judge others so quickly you could see that nothing we have seen from May so far indicates that she is a secret US agent out to sabotage Canada.

Interesting that you would take that meaning from my post. Who said anything about secrecy and sabotage?

I was referring to having Canadian values and feelings. I've found that Americans are very different than us as far as their culture. Sometimes some disparage Canadians for being too polite and obliging. A far greater number seem to believe that Americans are often rude and pushy.

Yet no one seems to accuse May of being a typical American. Curious.

Some things have to be learned in childhood or one may grow up incapable of ever learning. Case in point is thinking by the scientific method. Apparently if a child is never taught such before a certain age they will likely never be able to grasp the concept.

A lifetime of arguing with many different people has led me to believe that this idea at least is true!