20 replies to this topic

[Oleg Bach]

It is not like Joe screamed out the window to the town scribes "I never had sex with that woman." Nor was it likely that someone with a sharp stick and clay tablet was taking notes as he peered into the bedroom window of Joe and Mary. You may have remembered my past statement that God does not depend on magic or smoke and mirrors trickery in order to sustain his authorship in this world. It is only man and base nature not super nature that depends on deception for surival.

I am not going to argue the silly and most stupid concept of virgin birth - cruxifiction or a black blooded corpse rising from the dead. Most hear the term immaculate or perfect conception of a human being and assume that the definition is concerning the birth of Christ when it is actually the conception of Mary his mother. Putting that aside for a moment - reality dictates as well as logic that Joe was the father of Jesus and that fact does not make Christ anymore or any less devine.

I guess the myth of virgin birth was propogated and well thought out so we would call earthly church authoritarians "father" seeing Jesus did not have a father as they wish us to believe - this gives fall patriarchal power to the church and makes the supposed Christian family a single parent operation with the state and church in control. I wonder why the man who was the father of Jesus - who mentored him and taught him everything that was of great value was simply errased from the bible and the history books?


The tern magic in it's core meaning simply means trick - there is no such thing as magic - and it is impossible to get a woman pregnant without a male. Even in the book of Matthew it is ignored that the decendency of Jesus the Christ is clearly shown and Joe is his father - what is this 2000 year old attack against fatherhood about anyway?

[bloodyminded]

It is not like Joe screamed out the window to the town scribes "I never had sex with that woman." Nor was it likely that someone with a sharp stick and clay tablet was taking notes as he peered into the bedroom window of Joe and Mary. You may have remembered my past statement that God does not depend on magic or smoke and mirrors trickery in order to sustain his authorship in this world. It is only man and base nature not super nature that depends on deception for surival.

I am not going to argue the silly and most stupid concept of virgin birth - cruxifiction or a black blooded corpse rising from the dead. Most hear the term immaculate or perfect conception of a human being and assume that the definition is concerning the birth of Christ when it is actually the conception of Mary his mother. Putting that aside for a moment - reality dictates as well as logic that Joe was the father of Jesus and that fact does not make Christ anymore or any less devine.

I guess the myth of virgin birth was propogated and well thought out so we would call earthly church authoritarians "father" seeing Jesus did not have a father as they wish us to believe - this gives fall patriarchal power to the church and makes the supposed Christian family a single parent operation with the state and church in control. I wonder why the man who was the father of Jesus - who mentored him and taught him everything that was of great value was simply errased from the bible and the history books?


The tern magic in it's core meaning simply means trick - there is no such thing as magic - and it is impossible to get a woman pregnant without a male. Even in the book of Matthew it is ignored that the decendency of Jesus the Christ is clearly shown and Joe is his father - what is this 2000 year old attack against fatherhood about anyway?

Well, as the Bible is a series of myths not substantively distinct in type from previous myths, it seems clear enough that the "virgin birth" is another rerwriting of the old polytheistic favourite: a god impregnates a human woman, and she gives birth to a half-man, half-god hero.

[Oleg Bach]

Well, as the Bible is a series of myths not substantively distinct in type from previous myths, it seems clear enough that the "virgin birth" is another rerwriting of the old polytheistic favourite: a god impregnates a human woman, and she gives birth to a half-man, half-god hero.

Exactly! What I was pondering is why the bible seems to have this interwoven deceptive crap that insists that woman - and mothers are holy - That the father is to be displaced and not heeded. Take your typical Italian Roman Catholic - they belive their mothers are virgins and once they have had their way with their brides their wives are whores. What I deduct is that the state and the church have never been a seperate entity - that the "holy father" or the fatherly state has authority over the family...I guess power is easier to maintain when you dupe and seduce the woman with flatery and a false sense of feminist power...mean while wicked men at the top run the whole thing...even George W Bush said _ "listen to your mother" - because woman are nest builders and are the true hunters - Hilter said something also - "give me control of the woman and the child and husband will follow" - it's all a mixture of woman and pandering to what the powers seem to think is the weakest link in the familiar perimeter.


IF men where treated with respect the world would be a better place - but empire rise up from the loins of men and those in control nip all other empires in the bud except their own.

[cybercoma]

They adopted polytheistic mythology into the texts to gain converts by making Christianity seem more appealing.

[Oleg Bach]

That is why Christianity has always been so destructive. They attempted to make it more appealing by making it fantastic. Instead of using it for what it was truely worth..that it was an adherence to the truth - to reality...when realty is tossed aside for myth - only havoc can result - which it did.

[Oleg Bach]

What I want to know is what was the real father of Jesus like? What was his back ground? What did he learn from the Egyptians? Also it is kind of interesting that we have a modern parellel these days in regards to parenthood - We have a thing called bio-logical father - Which is quite stupid and sickeningly liberal. There is only one father and that is the one you spring from physically. The same can be said for motherhood. It's very odd that the such a primary figure such as the father of Jesus was never written about. Who was this great man who bore and reared such a great and astounding thinker?

[Who's Doing What?]

What I want to know is what was the real father of Jesus like? What was his back ground? What did he learn from the Egyptians? Also it is kind of interesting that we have a modern parellel these days in regards to parenthood - We have a thing called bio-logical father - Which is quite stupid and sickeningly liberal. There is only one father and that is the one you spring from physically. The same can be said for motherhood. It's very odd that the such a primary figure such as the father of Jesus was never written about. Who was this great man who bore and reared such a great and astounding thinker?

A girl asks her doctor: Could I have got pregnant from sitting on a toilet seat?
Doctor says: Sure, as long as there was a boy between you and the seat.


Joseph is a mystery. So much of what was originally written was thrown away, when the secular Christians got toether to make one manuscript that all could follow. Trying to find the bits of truth throughout the bible is the difficulty. As you said the leaders have turned the religion into something Fantastic.

I believe that one popular theory is that Joseph and Mary were Ethiopian. Which would make Jesus black. I hope that doesn't bother you. But the description of his hair fits. Hair like that of a sheep. Now what is more like a sheep's hair? The long blond locks that we see adorn the Jesus in every picture and statue around the world, or the tight curls of someone who is Black? Serioulsly how dumb is the idea that a guy born 2000 years ago in the middle East was blond? All the blond people were in Northern Europe and the British Isle's.

NOw back to Joseph. IF he led Mary across ethoipia up to Isreal, he had to be a heck of a man. That is one heck of a treck to make on foot. You are absolutly right in that we need to know more about this man.

[betsy]

It is not like Joe screamed out the window to the town scribes "I never had sex with that woman." Nor was it likely that someone with a sharp stick and clay tablet was taking notes as he peered into the bedroom window of Joe and Mary. You may have remembered my past statement that God does not depend on magic or smoke and mirrors trickery in order to sustain his authorship in this world. It is only man and base nature not super nature that depends on deception for surival.

I am not going to argue the silly and most stupid concept of virgin birth - cruxifiction or a black blooded corpse rising from the dead. Most hear the term immaculate or perfect conception of a human being and assume that the definition is concerning the birth of Christ when it is actually the conception of Mary his mother. Putting that aside for a moment - reality dictates as well as logic that Joe was the father of Jesus and that fact does not make Christ anymore or any less devine.

I guess the myth of virgin birth was propogated and well thought out so we would call earthly church authoritarians "father" seeing Jesus did not have a father as they wish us to believe - this gives fall patriarchal power to the church and makes the supposed Christian family a single parent operation with the state and church in control. I wonder why the man who was the father of Jesus - who mentored him and taught him everything that was of great value was simply errased from the bible and the history books?


The tern magic in it's core meaning simply means trick - there is no such thing as magic - and it is impossible to get a woman pregnant without a male. Even in the book of Matthew it is ignored that the decendency of Jesus the Christ is clearly shown and Joe is his father - what is this 2000 year old attack against fatherhood about anyway?

Obviously, you simply don't believe. In your opinion, the whole thing from virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection is all myth. Deception. You clearly made your conclusion.

Yet even though you've already arrived at a definite conclusion - basing it with the passion behind your statements - one would think that you'd rather not waste any more of your energy stating one reason after another as to why you think this is all baloney. It gives me the impression - at least that's my perception of your post - that you feel your conviction is on shakey ground. It almost sounds like the only one you're trying hard to convince is yourself. And that you need reassurance - team huddle in the bunker comes to mind - from likewise-minded that you are right in your conclusion.

[M.Dancer]

Obviously, you simply don't believe. In your opinion, the whole thing from virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection is all myth.

Myth is the wrong word. Myths attempt to explain things...like why are there rainbows....or why snakes have no legs...

The word you should be looing for is "Soteriology". If not that, try "a ripping good tarn".

[M.Dancer]

http://img3.imagesha...sfhx1qzski1.jpg

[GostHacked]

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8299/tumblrktj1wesfhx1qzski1.jpg

I hate myself for always laughing at this kind of punny meme stuff. Thanks a bunch!

[scorpio]

Obviously, you simply don't believe. In your opinion, the whole thing from virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection is all myth. Deception. You clearly made your conclusion.

Yet even though you've already arrived at a definite conclusion - basing it with the passion behind your statements - one would think that you'd rather not waste any more of your energy stating one reason after another as to why you think this is all baloney. It gives me the impression - at least that's my perception of your post - that you feel your conviction is on shakey ground. It almost sounds like the only one you're trying hard to convince is yourself. And that you need reassurance - team huddle in the bunker comes to mind - from likewise-minded that you are right in your conclusion.

Obviously, you simply want to believe. That's your choice, but some of us agnostics have researched the history of the bible. It is a good book but not the only book. God gave us reason, not religion.

Edited by scorpio, 18 February 2010 - 03:12 PM.

[Melanie_]

Isn’t it obvious why we don’t know more about Joseph? It doesn’t matter who fathered Jesus, god or man. The mother is the person who influences, guides, and counsels the child. As Christianity became more and more patriarchal, the need for defining paternity became more pronounced, but in reality it seems both god and man were nothing more than sperm donors... Mary is the only parent of substance the Bible talks about. The ambiguity of paternal responsibility speaks for itself.

[dre]

Well, as the Bible is a series of myths not substantively distinct in type from previous myths, it seems clear enough that the "virgin birth" is another rerwriting of the old polytheistic favourite: a god impregnates a human woman, and she gives birth to a half-man, half-god hero.

Goes a lot further than that. Lots of other things were pilfered pagan religiouns and other religiouns popular.

Sunday as the Sabbath.
The virgin birth.
The "sacrificial savior" concept.
All of the sacrements.
Communion with bread and wine.
The december 25 birthday.

The romans basically took all these things, rolled them into Christianity, then burned MOST of the real information about Jesus, and forced Rome to convert.

[Oleg Bach]

Obviously, you simply don't believe. In your opinion, the whole thing from virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection is all myth. Deception. You clearly made your conclusion.

Yet even though you've already arrived at a definite conclusion - basing it with the passion behind your statements - one would think that you'd rather not waste any more of your energy stating one reason after another as to why you think this is all baloney. It gives me the impression - at least that's my perception of your post - that you feel your conviction is on shakey ground. It almost sounds like the only one you're trying hard to convince is yourself. And that you need reassurance - team huddle in the bunker comes to mind - from likewise-minded that you are right in your conclusion.

Being reared by a father born in 1910 and a much younger mother - who were both Orthodox Christians...and dads' best friend's father was an old Russian - who originated the first Russian Orthodox Church in Toronto - myself - I was babpitzed in London England at "The Russian Orthodox Church in Exile" - having mentioned the above..My father who got his training from his father who was real old school Christian born and reared in the 1800s...They were pragmatic and honest people - It was always a given in our house that Jesus had actual brothers and sisters - that he probably enjoyed the company of woman - It was not a big deal to go on like a mystic pagan about "virgin birth" - which is impossible..


Or him being some fatherless wayward child taken under the wing of Joesphe....It was the message of brilliance and intelligent living that Christ taught that OUR faith was based on - not on smoke and mirrors and supersition and wishful belief.

GOD in my perception does not practice magic (trickery)...nor is there a need for miracles to garner faith - when our very existence is the most profound miracle possible.

Funny how this topic was suddenly resurrected...as for rising from the dead..I believe that is possible - that the term "assend and decend" actually mean to travel back and forth in time...Quantum mechnics and the power over time is often mentioned in scripture - IF you are bright enough to get it - as for Jesus...I believe he was the finest mind and spirit embodied in human flesh to have ever landed on the planet..That is enough for me..that INTELLIGENCE - in this mortal yet devine man is the PROOF of the existance of God...stupidity and evil are kin --- all of our problems are based in the limitations of human intelligence and perception -


To reach out to the endless universe - or to God for acceptance and assistance is wise - because GOD - brings us to the highest level of intelligence - Christ was the portal to this knowledge - The bible is a great book but has been politized over the years and THAT has to be filter out to get to the truth - and YES - when the father of Jesus decided to "put Mary away" - because she was with child prior marriage - was in my mind Joes attempt to avoid scandal - He slept with here prior to marriage - so what! Christ is still devine ----- and how he was born is of no real consequence when it comes to his teachings.