179 replies to this topic

[Chippewa]

The Church is a victim too.

How can the oppressor be the victim??

Did the victim suddenly feel guilty?? lol

This is not a new story, around the world with Christianity. Its really the devils work.

Look at australia, u.s.a, canada. How could all the churches be the victim if they didn't just do it in one country but every country they were involved with.

People need to stop practicing such a hateful religion that is responsible for so much turmoil around the world.

[betsy]

Yet you don't sound like you're laughing. You're in pain.

You're caught in the middle. Between someone who's pointing it out to you as objectively as she can (even though it may not be what you want to hear)....and another, who commiserates with you, pulling the scab for you, and helping you stoke that fire of anger which is being aimed - not at the humans who did those unspeakable crimes - but straight at the Christian faith.

This is one example:

Let's not forget that the "power of positive thinking" speech barely hides the "I don't care what happens to you" theme. So Christian it is...

Edited by betsy, 01 August 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[Chippewa]

This is one example:

So you support Genocidal Maniacs called the Christian Religion, and Churches associated with its god.

http://www.canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/guatemalan_genocide.html

The Church is responsible for Genocide, Murder, Torchure, Rape, Biological Terrorism, Terrorism, Abductions, and ethnic cleansing.

I don't see why others would be indoctrinated with such false, and deadly beliefs.

Vancouver, May 23:

On Thursday, May 20, 2004, a representative of three major indigenous groups in Guatemala presented a formal protest letter or "denuncia" to Monica Izaguire of the Canadian Embassy in Guatemala City.

This protest letter accused Canada and its mainline churches of committing and concealing acts of Genocide against its native populations for more than a century, in their Indian Residential Schools and hospitals.

The letter called for the Canadian government to support an international investigation into these allegations of Genocide by Canada and its churches.

The letter was endorsed and signed by the Defensoria Indigena, the Consejo de Esperanza of San Andres Itzapa, and the Consejo Asesor Indigena of San Andres Itzapa.

To quote the letter,

"To the Government and Prime Minister of Canada,

"We are deeply alarmed and concerned by the fact that crimes of Genocide are alleged to have been committed against the indigenous peoples of Canada by your government and by the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian and United Church of Canada.

"According to eyewitnesses and official documentation, these crimes are alleged to include murder, torture, rape, involuntary sexual sterilization, forced labour, biological warfare, medical experimentation, land theft, cultural eradication, pedophilia, and the conducting of a prolonged war of extermination against non-Christian aboriginal people.

"These crimes are alleged to have occured for more than a century in the state-sponsored and church-run Indian Residential Schools which legally interred every Indian child across Canada between the years 1890 and 1984. During this period, more than 50,000 children died in these schools, according to the statistics of your own Department of Indian Affairs. Most of the bodies of these dead children have never been located or recovered.

"According to the evidence before us, paid employees and officials of these Indian Residential Schools perpetrated, condoned and concealed every act defined as Genocide by the United Nations Convention on the Prevention of Genocide, which was passed by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948, and ratified by Canada in 1952.

"The same evidence indicates that the highest officials of church and state in Canada knew of these crimes and continually approved them as a matter of policy. As such, your government and the churches in question appear to be responsible for having committed and concealed intentional Genocide, as defined by the United Nations.

"We understand that your government and the churches in question have only acknowledged the physical and sexual attacks on native children in these schools, and have refused to take responsibility for any of the other crimes attested to by eyewitness survivors. In this way, your institutions can be considered to be openly violating international law, and holding yourselves unaccountable for crimes against humanity committed by your employees and accountable officials.

"As representatives of indigenous organizations throughout the Americas, we therefore call upon your government and the churches in question to abide by morality and international law, and do the following:

"1. Support a motion before the United Nations General Assembly and the International Criminal Court to establish an International War Crimes Tribunal into Genocide in Canada.

"2. Surrender to this Tribunal all evidence held by your government and the churches in question pertaining to any and all crimes committed against indigenous people and their land, including murder and Genocide.

"3. Surrender to this Tribunal the names of all persons who are guilty of such crimes in the Indian Residential Schools.

"4. Respond publicly to the allegations of Genocide made against your government and the churches in question by survivors of the residential schools.

"5. Revoke the charitable, tax free status of the churches in question on the grounds that they are accused of having committed and concealed crimes against humanity, and should therefore not be subsidized and aided by the public until these allegations are proved or disproved.

"We are communicating this appeal to the world community and its media, prior to further public action on this matter."

This statement has been delivered to the world press, as the first in a series of further denuncias anticipated by the Guatemalan indigenous groups, which are working with The Truth Commission into Genocide in Canada to make these facts known.

For more information, contact The Truth Commission into Genocide through this email or (in Canada) at 1-888-265-1007.

[betsy]

How can the oppressor be the victim??

Did the victim suddenly feel guilty?? lol

By "Church," I mean the Church which is referred to in the Bible as the Church established by Christ.

Btw, I used to be a Catholic. I read and try to understand the Bible for myslef....because I don't want to be misled.

This is not a new story, around the world with Christianity. Its really the devils work.

Look at australia, u.s.a, canada. How could all the churches be the victim if they didn't just do it in one country but every country they were involved with.

Well, that it's the devil's work is not surprising at all! What, you think the devil will ceremoniously appear and announce, "tadaaaa...it's me, folks! Let's gather up and have a group hug! Orgy time!"

Jesus Christ had repeatedly warned us against those who'd use His name. The New Testament is practically awashed with Christ really venting and lambasting the hypocrisy and sins of the clergy in those days!

People need to stop practicing such a hateful religion that is responsible for so much turmoil around the world.

Pfffffft. Wrong logic. Childish.

It's not religion itself that's committed the crime. It's humans who used religion to perpetrate their crimes. Like a scam artist that flashes a badge for a prop...to make it look legit!

That's like saying, a child was sexually abused in a daycare center...therefore, people should stop taking their children to all daycare centers.

That's also along the same line of logic used by bigots! A black guy commits a crime....therefore all colored people should be hung!

That the Christian religion/Church was used in order for them to be able to do their scam....of course that makes the Church a victim.

Just listen to you as an example:

People need to stop practicing such a hateful religion that is responsible for so much turmoil around the world.

See? You're blaming Christianity.

Anyway, do you even know what being a Christian is? I'm talking about a Christian who truly tries to be a follower of Christ....not just some self-professing Christian only when it's convenient. DO you know the teachings of Christ?

A lot of Christianity-maligners actually have not read and understood the Bible.
They're just winging it, so to speak.
Or worse...they're just repeating the same ignorance of those who were just winging it!

Those non-Christians who had read and understood do not malign the Bible or Christ because of human errors.

Edited by betsy, 02 August 2011 - 03:48 AM.

[betsy]

So you support Genocidal Maniacs called the Christian Religion, and Churches associated with its god.

http://www.canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/guatemalan_genocide.html

The Church is responsible for Genocide, Murder, Torchure, Rape, Biological Terrorism, Terrorism, Abductions, and ethnic cleansing.

I don't see why others would be indoctrinated with such false, and deadly beliefs.

Vancouver, May 23:

On Thursday, May 20, 2004, a representative of three major indigenous groups in Guatemala presented a formal protest letter or "denuncia" to Monica Izaguire of the Canadian Embassy in Guatemala City.

This protest letter accused Canada and its mainline churches of committing and concealing acts of Genocide against its native populations for more than a century, in their Indian Residential Schools and hospitals.

The letter called for the Canadian government to support an international investigation into these allegations of Genocide by Canada and its churches.

The letter was endorsed and signed by the Defensoria Indigena, the Consejo de Esperanza of San Andres Itzapa, and the Consejo Asesor Indigena of San Andres Itzapa.

To quote the letter,

"To the Government and Prime Minister of Canada,

"We are deeply alarmed and concerned by the fact that crimes of Genocide are alleged to have been committed against the indigenous peoples of Canada by your government and by the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian and United Church of Canada.

"According to eyewitnesses and official documentation, these crimes are alleged to include murder, torture, rape, involuntary sexual sterilization, forced labour, biological warfare, medical experimentation, land theft, cultural eradication, pedophilia, and the conducting of a prolonged war of extermination against non-Christian aboriginal people.

"These crimes are alleged to have occured for more than a century in the state-sponsored and church-run Indian Residential Schools which legally interred every Indian child across Canada between the years 1890 and 1984. During this period, more than 50,000 children died in these schools, according to the statistics of your own Department of Indian Affairs. Most of the bodies of these dead children have never been located or recovered.

"According to the evidence before us, paid employees and officials of these Indian Residential Schools perpetrated, condoned and concealed every act defined as Genocide by the United Nations Convention on the Prevention of Genocide, which was passed by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948, and ratified by Canada in 1952.

"The same evidence indicates that the highest officials of church and state in Canada knew of these crimes and continually approved them as a matter of policy. As such, your government and the churches in question appear to be responsible for having committed and concealed intentional Genocide, as defined by the United Nations.

"We understand that your government and the churches in question have only acknowledged the physical and sexual attacks on native children in these schools, and have refused to take responsibility for any of the other crimes attested to by eyewitness survivors. In this way, your institutions can be considered to be openly violating international law, and holding yourselves unaccountable for crimes against humanity committed by your employees and accountable officials.

"As representatives of indigenous organizations throughout the Americas, we therefore call upon your government and the churches in question to abide by morality and international law, and do the following:

"1. Support a motion before the United Nations General Assembly and the International Criminal Court to establish an International War Crimes Tribunal into Genocide in Canada.

"2. Surrender to this Tribunal all evidence held by your government and the churches in question pertaining to any and all crimes committed against indigenous people and their land, including murder and Genocide.

"3. Surrender to this Tribunal the names of all persons who are guilty of such crimes in the Indian Residential Schools.

"4. Respond publicly to the allegations of Genocide made against your government and the churches in question by survivors of the residential schools.

"5. Revoke the charitable, tax free status of the churches in question on the grounds that they are accused of having committed and concealed crimes against humanity, and should therefore not be subsidized and aided by the public until these allegations are proved or disproved.

"We are communicating this appeal to the world community and its media, prior to further public action on this matter."

This statement has been delivered to the world press, as the first in a series of further denuncias anticipated by the Guatemalan indigenous groups, which are working with The Truth Commission into Genocide in Canada to make these facts known.

For more information, contact The Truth Commission into Genocide through this email or (in Canada) at 1-888-265-1007.

See my reply above.

Anyway....open your Bible and show me which specific part in the teachings of Christ were being followed by the accused?

If you can't....then stop regurgitating the same argument. You may dress a hippo in a tutu and ballerina shoes.....it's doesn't change anything. It's still the same thing.

[Chippewa]

[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']
By "Church," I mean the Church which is referred to in the Bible as the Church established by Christ.
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

"""The Bible was written by some dude 200 years after the fact Jeses died. How could a person in a time of no computers, universitys, recite such a crazy hear say story??"""
[/quote]
Btw, I used to be a Catholic. I read and try to understand the Bible for myslef....because I don't want to be misled.
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

"""If Batman was re-written 7 times over like how Jesis was in all the religions, like cathlic, christian, anglican, baptist, and whatever religious outcasts came up with, would normally be charged with plagiarism, because its like having the same superhero "Batman" in 7 different religions."""""

[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

Well, that it's the devil's work is not surprising at all! What, you think the devil will ceremoniously appear and announce, "tadaaaa...it's me, folks! Let's gather up and have a group hug! Orgy time!"
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

"""Apparently the Churchs and everybody associated with Jeses thought it was Orgy time, with little kids.""""
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

Jesus Christ had repeatedly warned us against those who'd use His name. The New Testament is practically awashed with Christ really venting and lambasting the hypocrisy and sins of the clergy in those days!
[/quote] [quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

"""Like I said, Its more plagiarism, whoever came up with the Jesis christ Idea would have a hell of a court case because the character is portrayed in some many bible books, comic books as a good, and super hero. """

[quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

Pfffffft. Wrong logic. Childish.
[quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

It's not religion itself that's committed the crime. It's humans who used religion to perpetrate their crimes. Like a scam artist that flashes a badge for a prop...to make it look legit!

That's like saying, a child was sexually abused in a daycare center...therefore, people should stop taking their children to all daycare centers.
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

""Daycares never forced religion, rape, torchure, pediphile rings, abduction, and genocide on children just because of there skin colour. ""
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

That's also along the same line of logic used by bigots! A black guy commits a crime....therefore all colored people should be hung!
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

""""In the U.S.A it happened all the time.""""
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

That the Christian religion/Church was used in order for them to be able to do their scam....of course that makes the Church a victim.
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

''''Church is one big scam, they have a collection plate for all the sins for the week don't they, instead of court and judicial system. '''
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

Just listen to you as an example:

See? You're blaming Christianity.
[/quote]
Anyway, do you even know what being a Christian is? I'm talking about a Christian who truly tries to be a follower of Christ....not just some self-professing Christian only when it's convenient. DO you know the teachings of Christ?
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

'''First Nations can tell you that they know what being a Christian is. Its about having old caucauziod people rape, molest, torchure, and murder innocent children. Same as cathlic, anglican, and the rest of the bible taughting terrorist.'''''''
[/quote][quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']

A lot of Christianity-maligners actually have not read and understood the Bible.
They're just winging it, so to speak. Those non-Christians who had read and understood do not malign the Bible or Christ because of human errors.
[/quote] [quote name='betsy' date='01 August 2011 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1312231540' post='695553']


First Nations have been cured of the Bible, I can tell you that. You should ask them advice, maybe its not to late to save yourself from eternal damnation.

Edited by Chippewa, 01 August 2011 - 07:29 PM.

[betsy]

First Nations have been cured of the Bible, I can tell you that. You should ask them advice, maybe its not to late to save yourself from eternal damnation.

I asked you to open your Bible and show me which specific part in the teachings of Christ were being followed by the accused. And this is all you give?

In other words you're barking at the wrong tree!

Nurturing anger and hate all these years will do that to you, you know. Blind you from seeing reason. Anyway, I guess there's nothing more to say.

[Chippewa]

I asked you to open your Bible and show me which specific part in the teachings of Christ were being followed by the accused. And this is all you give?

In other words you're barking at the wrong tree!

Nurturing anger and hate all these years will do that to you, you know. Blind you from seeing reason. Anyway, I guess there's nothing more to say.

I asked you to look at First Nations in Canada, and places around the world, where the Bible was used to commit genocide, terrorism, medical experimentation, rape, torchure, loosly organized pedephile rings, murder, biological terrorism, biological warfare, and abducting children from there homes. All in the name of and the Teachings of Christ.

The Christ Teachings have indoctrinated hundreds of millions by the masses. It has allowed for that faith to burn thousands of women at the stake in Salom Witch Trials, it allowed for hundreds of thousands to be removed from there homes, and placed into residential schools, where all the criminal activities took place.

The Racketeering laws need to be applied to the Churches, they are a criminal organization disguised as a religion. They were responsible for hiding Nazi war criminals, Genocide in North America, Genocide in Australia, Genocide in Africa, all in the name of Christs teachings.

If anything they should be considered a Terrorist Organization because of the world atrocities they are responsible for.

[betsy]

I asked you to look at First Nations in Canada, and places around the world, where the Bible was used to commit genocide, terrorism, medical experimentation, rape, torchure, loosly organized pedephile rings, murder, biological terrorism, biological warfare, and abducting children from there homes. All in the name of and the Teachings of Christ.

The Christ Teachings have indoctrinated hundreds of millions by the masses. It has allowed for that faith to burn thousands of women at the stake in Salom Witch Trials, it allowed for hundreds of thousands to be removed from there homes, and placed into residential schools, where all the criminal activities took place.

The Racketeering laws need to be applied to the Churches, they are a criminal organization disguised as a religion. They were responsible for hiding Nazi war criminals, Genocide in North America, Genocide in Australia, Genocide in Africa, all in the name of Christs teachings.

If anything they should be considered a Terrorist Organization because of the world atrocities they are responsible for.

Whatever.

[Chippewa]

Whatever.

So would you agree with others around the world, that the following needs to be done.
These are demands by human rights groups in the Americas.


"1. Support a motion before the United Nations General Assembly and the International Criminal Court to establish an International War Crimes Tribunal into Genocide in Canada.

"2. Surrender to this Tribunal all evidence held by your government and the churches in question pertaining to any and all crimes committed against indigenous people and their land, including murder and Genocide.

"3. Surrender to this Tribunal the names of all persons who are guilty of such crimes in the Indian Residential Schools.

"4. Respond publicly to the allegations of Genocide made against your government and the churches in question by survivors of the residential schools.

"5. Revoke the charitable, tax free status of the churches in question on the grounds that they are accused of having committed and concealed crimes against humanity, and should therefore not be subsidized and aided by the public until these allegations are proved or disproved.


This means placing high ranking Church Officials and Politicians in prison. are you willing to do that.

Edited by Chippewa, 02 August 2011 - 10:22 AM.

[betsy]

So would you agree with others around the world, that the following needs to be done.
These are demands by human rights groups in the Americas.


"1. Support a motion before the United Nations General Assembly and the International Criminal Court to establish an International War Crimes Tribunal into Genocide in Canada.

"2. Surrender to this Tribunal all evidence held by your government and the churches in question pertaining to any and all crimes committed against indigenous people and their land, including murder and Genocide.

"3. Surrender to this Tribunal the names of all persons who are guilty of such crimes in the Indian Residential Schools.

"4. Respond publicly to the allegations of Genocide made against your government and the churches in question by survivors of the residential schools.

"5. Revoke the charitable, tax free status of the churches in question on the grounds that they are accused of having committed and concealed crimes against humanity, and should therefore not be subsidized and aided by the public until these allegations are proved or disproved.

United Nations and Human Rights don't go well together. Since you like jokes....you should be rolling with laughter and derision, like I am right now!

I don't go for mere "posturing."
If you want real justice and real human rights, it's only sensible to discern who'd be hearing and judging these cases! Otherwise, you're just fooling yourself...or just thinking of your own people, and turning a blind eye on the rest!
Then it's just like choosing which one you prefer to fight for. In that case, pick-and-choose. Just like adopt-a-specie, or adopt-a-highway....

If it's going to be that way, I'd spend my effort and time fighting for the ones closest to my heart! The ones who need it the most!
What about the right of the unborn??? The ones who are going through their own holocaust, without any voice at all??

I don't care whether it's what the whole wide world wants....unless you're a lemming. Or a zombified brain dead!
If they all eat poo, will you do the same? Just beacuse they're all doing it?

If one is to be so self-righteous about justice and human rights - you shouldn't be doing a cherry-pick what people or what nation gets it. Everyone, regardless of color or CREED....or whether you're a minority or not, or regardless of your gender, should get it!

This means placing high ranking Church Officials and Politicians in prison. are you willing to do that.

If you read my reply to your buddy, WIP, you'd see that I've already stated my position on this. See? Your anger and hate is blinding you, not only to reason....but literally it seems.

Edited by betsy, 03 August 2011 - 05:00 AM.

[Oleg Bach]

Yeah, I bet the aboriginals are just hoping the crazy church lady comes and helps them through their trouble... sounds like exactly the kind of help they need more of.


-k

Betsy says "together" - always be weary of those that say "we are all one".

[Oleg Bach]

Yeah, I bet the aboriginals are just hoping the crazy church lady comes and helps them through their trouble... sounds like exactly the kind of help they need more of.


-k

Betsy says "together" - always be weary of those that say "we are all one".

[Chippewa]

United Nations and Human Rights don't go well together. Since you like jokes....you should be rolling with laughter and derision, like I am right now!

I don't go for mere "posturing."
If you want real justice and real human rights, it's only sensible to discern who'd be hearing and judging these cases! Otherwise, you're just fooling yourself...or just thinking of your own people, and turning a blind eye on the rest!
Then it's just like choosing which one you prefer to fight for. In that case, pick-and-choose. Just like adopt-a-specie, or adopt-a-highway....

[u]



If you read my reply to your buddy, WIP, you'd see that I've already stated my position on this. See? Your anger and hate is blinding you, not only to reason....but literally it seems.

So you think that human rights are a joke. You think peoples lives who have been terrorized by the Churches is all a joke. You think that a 51% death rate is all a joke, and in Canada.

Let me guess, you think that the Jews are a joke, and you think that the Holocaust they went through is a joke. So you and your religion really doesn't have any reguard for human life. What kind of religion is that.

So you think that murdered chilren are just like adopt a highway in Residential Schools. Because the Bible teaches you all this right.

I think your anger and hate towards human life, and humanity is a real shame. How can somebody like yourself, say, hey after you were raped, abducted, torchured, and ripped away from your family because the Bible, and Canadian Law says so. After nobody went to prison for War Crimes. That one shouldn't be mad?? What planet you from?? So for instance, Jewish people who endured a 44% death rate have no reason to have anger and feel mad??

Well, lets try an experiment. Howabout you let your 5 year old child, get abducted, raped, torchured, infected with TB, and sent back to your household at the age of 16 with a tampered bumhole, and new Religious experience. Then tell that child. Don't be mad and angery after nobody goes to prison.

[Chippewa]

If you read my reply to your buddy, WIP, you'd see that I've already stated my position on this. See? Your anger and hate is blinding you, not only to reason....but literally it seems.

This kind of statement wants me to go into all the churches and blow every priests head right off, at the alter. I would feel no guilt or shame. Infact, I would feel relieved. Because if nobody goes to jail, maybe somebody will atleast get there heads blown off with a shot gun.

After maybe write a book, and have a best seller.