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Mohammed Atta & Charles Manson


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#1 August1991

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:35 PM

In a blur, yes. But Mohammed Atta is more like William Calley, don't you think?

William Calley? I first thought of Manson but Shwa, your post forced me to start this thread.

Maybe Calley is a better example. And maybe I should start a poll...

---

Charles Manson organized others to kill innocent people and by all accounts, Manson is certifiably crazy. Mohammed Atta was part of an organization and he killed innocent people too. Atta is now dead so we don't know whether he was crazy.

In the West, we have mixed opinions about these two men. They both killed innocent people but in the West, we say that Manson was crazy whereas Atta was a (fanatical) Muslim. In the West, we tend to give attention to Atta's purpose in his actions. We give no attention to the writings/opinions of Manson - except when he carves his forehead.

I suppose my thread should really ask whether we should pay attention to Atta, or Manson. Manson is crazy. Maybe Atta is too.

-----

Recently in Quebec, a jury found a man charged with killing his children (Guy Turcotte) innocent, because he was "crazy".

When members of a Muslim family drowned, some people were quick to draw conclusions: is the family crazy? Or Muslim?

This seems strange to me. We in the West excuse the horrific behaviour of our own people saying that they are "crazy". But when foreigners engage in similar behaviour, we say that they are evil, fanatical.

----

1) Charles Manson is in jail and William Calley spent time in jail. Atta is dead.

2) Were they crazy? Manson, definitely. Calley and Atta, I dunno.

3) Atta killed random people abroad. Manson killed random people at home. Calley, we don't know. Maybe the conclusion is that lunatics kill people at home but truly, dangerous crazy fanatics kill abroad.

Edited by August1991, 25 July 2011 - 12:40 PM.

"In civilised society he stands at all times in need of the cooperation and assistance of great multitudes, while his whole life is scarce sufficient to gain the friendship of a few persons." Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 2

#2 Moonlight Graham

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:45 PM

Manson is not crazy.


"Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice, without constraint." - Alexander Hamilton

9/11 sucked, so then what about this?:  "Did you know that today 27,000 children will die of preventable diseases such as diarrhea, measles, and malnutrition? That's the same as if an airplane full of children crashed every 16 minutes, killing everyone onboard." - Aug. 2005 edition of 'Warcry', official magazine of the Salvation Army

#3 DogOnPorch

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:54 PM

I saw a Corcoran State Prison receipt from the 90s for Charles Manson that included a pound of Folger's Coffee. Now that's twisted.

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
---Cletus


#4 August1991

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:59 PM

I saw a Corcoran State Prison receipt from the 90s for Charles Manson that included a pound of Folger's Coffee. Now that's twisted.

You miss the point.

Lunatics in Oslo, or lunatics in New York. What's the difference?

----

Frankly, taking a broader view of life, having lived here and there, I don't see a difference. Atta and Manson?

As you Americans say, "Same diff."

Edited by August1991, 25 July 2011 - 01:09 PM.

"In civilised society he stands at all times in need of the cooperation and assistance of great multitudes, while his whole life is scarce sufficient to gain the friendship of a few persons." Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 2

#5 DogOnPorch

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:31 PM

You miss the point.

Lunatics in Oslo, or lunatics in New York. What's the difference?


Charles Manson isn't from NYC nor did he commit crimes there. You missed what actually happened.

----

Frankly, taking a broader view of life, having lived here and there, I don't see a difference. Atta and Manson?

As you Americans say, "Same diff."


Je suis Canadien, Monsieur Bonhomme Carnaval.
:lol:

Didn't Atta have terminal cancer?

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
---Cletus


#6 August1991

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:03 PM

Charles Manson isn't from NYC nor did he commit crimes there. You missed what actually happened.

Son of Sam, a New Yorker, killed young people in New York. Charles Manson killed other Americans, in California. This whacko Norwegian killed other young Norwegians.

The Boston Strangler killed people too.

What conclusion should I draw? Should I read their writings to understand the ravings of a lunatic?

Edited by August1991, 25 July 2011 - 02:04 PM.

"In civilised society he stands at all times in need of the cooperation and assistance of great multitudes, while his whole life is scarce sufficient to gain the friendship of a few persons." Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 2

#7 DogOnPorch

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:18 PM

Son of Sam, a New Yorker, killed young people in New York. Charles Manson killed other Americans, in California. This whacko Norwegian killed other young Norwegians.

The Boston Strangler killed people too.

What conclusion should I draw? Should I read their writings to understand the ravings of a lunatic?


Actually, Charles Manson isn't really credited with any particular murder...charged, yes...but not credited.

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
---Cletus


#8 Jack Weber

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:24 PM

Actually, Charles Manson isn't really credited with any particular murder...charged, yes...but not credited.


That's right...

Manson was/is more of a "Looney Tunes Svengali"...
The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!

#9 DogOnPorch

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:28 PM

That's right...

Manson was/is more of a "Looney Tunes Svengali"...


Oh yeah...the ol' bast**d is still tickin'.

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
---Cletus


#10 kimmy

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:16 PM

Recently in Quebec, a jury found a man charged with killing his children (Guy Turcotte) innocent, because he was "crazy".


"Innocent" and "not guilty by reason of insanity" don't mean the same thing.

The law, a medical professional, and a layman all have different definitions of crazy.

To you or me, somebody who would kill 90 teenagers because he hopes to spark some kind of revolution is crazy.

To a medical professional, he might or might not be crazy. He might have some sort of psychiatric condition that prevents him from feeling empathy or something like that. Maybe he has a legitimate, diagnosable psychiatric condition, or maybe he doesn't.

To the law, he knew exactly what he was doing. He isn't crazy by the definitions the law has set out.




-k
"The essence of my happiness is fighting for the happiness of others." -Roza Shanina, Red Army sniper 1943-1945.

#11 Oleg Bach

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 05:01 AM

Muslims in Canada do drown a lot...come summmer they sink like stones in panic - We corn fed Canadians know how to swim because in Canada we as children have lakes and rivers and the water is our friend...where as those immigrants from dry places die if they go near water...in fact we love water - we bath in it - baptize are children in it ....Just thought I would mention that Canada is water - we still have the biggest and purest supply on the planet...and myself - as a kid I would grab a big rock and jump in to sink thirty feet down...cos - we are water and it is our friend...Christians do not drown...and if they do they are like the witch that does not float....lol

#12 bloodyminded

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:54 AM

I saw a Corcoran State Prison receipt from the 90s for Charles Manson that included a pound of Folger's Coffee. Now that's twisted.



Folger's? Yeah, what's the point?
As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.
--Josh Billings

#13 DogOnPorch

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:22 AM

What's the point???

http://en.wikipedia..../Abigail_Folger

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
---Cletus


#14 bloodyminded

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:47 AM

What's the point???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_Folger



Ah, interesting.

No, when I said "what's the point"? I was asking "what's the point of drinking Folger's?" since I think it's sucky coffee. :)
As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.
--Josh Billings

#15 DogOnPorch

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:50 AM

Ah, interesting.

No, when I said "what's the point"? I was asking "what's the point of drinking Folger's?" since I think it's sucky coffee. :)


It is...at least the crap around here. It could have been better in 1969...but, time travel eludes me still.

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
---Cletus




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