220 replies to this topic

[betsy]

This topic is inspired by the discussion with Canadien in the other topic, The Bible. It is an interesting question for the situation is not unique. There are those who profess and believe themselves to be Christians, and yet do not adhere nor even believe some of the truths that Jesus Christ had taught.

I would like to emphasize that this is just for the sake of discussion.

I take the position of a Christian who believes that to be a Christian, the most basic requirement will be to believe that everything Jeus Christ - and his Apostles, whom He personally appointed, and taught, to continue His work - revealed, said and instructed are true. By everything, it means all!

Jesus Christ had stated, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life."

Jesus is also The Word.

And as a Christian, it is my duty to try to preserve and spread what Christ - and His Apostles - had preached and taught.
Therefore, it is imperative to know and try to understand the Bible - which is the Word of God - which was also referred to by Christ. That includes the Old Testament.
For how can a Christian know what is the foundation and root of his faith - like the seed in Jesus' parable, surely for something to take root solidly, it ought to be anchored on fertile soil - if he do not know what some of Jesus' preachings is all about?

This topic is dedicated to all Christians.

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 04:05 AM.

[betsy]

I move the discussion between Canadien and I, from page 64 of The Bible to this thread.

Yep, I was talking about your posting. Apt description of them.

No, no, no, there's no mistaking it....you are truly confused.

And how often does it need to be pointed out to you that I am Christian?

See? Why do you say you are a Christian?

Canadien:

Not the same as subscribing to that fraud known as creationism

You call creationism - Christian Creationism - as a fraud!

Canadien
Guess that FACT has to be written in the Bible for you to get it.

You don't even know...that you're anything BUT a Christian. You only think you are. And I don't know why you'd even want to imagine yourself a Christian.

At least that's how you strongly come across.

Explain your position. What do you believe?

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 03:33 AM.

[betsy]

No, no, no, there's no mistaking it....you are truly confused.

On the contrary. I am not confused about your complete ignorance.

Betsy:
See? Why do you say you are a Christian?

Because I am.

Betsy:

You call creationism - Christian Creationism - as a fraud!

Let me clarify. /Creationist" "science", as the attempt by ignorants and charlatans to confuse faith and science and rejct scientific knowledge (such as evolution), is a fraud.

Betsy:

You don't even know...that you're anything BUT a Christian. You only think you are.

At least that's how you strongly come across.

I'll let God be the judge on how good of a Christian I am. Not you.

Betsy:
And I don't know why you'd even want to imagine yourself a Christian.

No surprise there. You barely know anything at all.

Betsy:
Explain your position. What do you believe?

You ask for it. Don't blame me when it makes you look (once again) like a fool.

Let's start with..

What is said in the Apostle's Creed.
That God is My Saviour
Matthew 5, 1-12, Matthew 25, 31-46 (mong other texts)
That the Bible is the Word of God


Now a bit about what I do not believe in:

that the Bible is meant to be taken literally
That the Bible is to be taken aand used as a science textbook
That the theory of evolution is anything but sound scientific knowledge
And... that you are anything but joke.

If you feel the need to embarass yourself further in response, do it quick. 50 minutes or so before I leave for... church.

No. You start from the very BEGINNING. How it all began.

Do you believe that God is the Creator? Or...

...That God - whom Jesus referred to as The Father - is the INTELLIGENT DESIGNER?

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 04:08 AM.

[Shwa]

It is an interesting question for the situation is not unique. There are those who profess and believe themselves to be Christians, and yet do not adhere nor even believe some of the truths that Jesus Christ had taught.

It is an epistemological problem since the record of what "Jesus Christ taught" is incomplete and that the remaining record could have - and likely was - altered to suit some purpose or another throughout the various ages. Then there is the problem of interpretation...

I believe a self-admitted Christian is someone who lives their life, to the best of their ablity, according to the most positive interpretation of the basic teachings that are found in the Gospels. This person will usually have a faith that this mode of living is sound and worthwhile for themselves and for their interaction with others. The best Christians I know do not proselytize since the example of their living is evidence enough of the positive attributes of their faith.

[Michael Hardner]

Since there is no widely agreed-upon definition of Christian, though, you almost have to allow people to define themselves as Christians or not. Someone who believes part of the books of Christian teachings could consider themselves a 'Christian'.

[M.Dancer]

I only know one Christian, but there are no doubt others....

His name is Christian Lavergne.

He is most positively a Christian.

I met Jesus in a bar in Florida. He was a gardener.

[Oleg Bach]

A Christian is a person that never attends a church, It is a person of free will and of free mind - It is a person that never fears the state - a person that NEVER reveals who they are - and above all - Christianity is not a religion - but a powerful independed state of mind.

[Oleg Bach]

Also - a Christian never repeats and repeats the lords name in vain (vanity) When you hear someone that says Jesus - Jesus _ Jesus this and Jesus that - you know they are a demon hiding behind the cloak of the master....Christians do not worship Mary - nor do they heed the words of Paul - or Peter...Christians only know a tiny bit of scripture - only the words that came from the masters mouth..and no other.

[dre]

This topic is inspired by the discussion with Canadien in the other topic, The Bible. It is an interesting question for the situation is not unique. There are those who profess and believe themselves to be Christians, and yet do not adhere nor even believe some of the truths that Jesus Christ had taught.

I would like to emphasize that this is just for the sake of discussion.

I take the position of a Christian who believes that to be a Christian, the most basic requirement will be to believe that everything Jeus Christ - and his Apostles, whom He personally appointed, and taught, to continue His work - revealed, said and instructed are true. By everything, it means all!

Jesus Christ had stated, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life."

Jesus is also The Word.

And as a Christian, it is my duty to try to preserve and spread what Christ - and His Apostles - had preached and taught.
Therefore, it is imperative to know and try to understand the Bible - which is the Word of God - which was also referred to by Christ. That includes the Old Testament.
For how can a Christian know what is the foundation and root of his faith - like the seed in Jesus' parable, surely for something to take root solidly, it ought to be anchored on fertile soil - if he do not know what some of Jesus' preachings is all about?

This topic is dedicated to all Christians.

The bible is most definately NOT the word of god. It is the result of a political process in which a large body of christian writings, many of them in conflict and at odds with each other, were arbitrarily selected or rejected, and many of the writings were declared heresy, destroyed or burned.

The reality is that you dont know who wrote the bible or how it was written and compiled, and you dont know which parts were specifically excluded.

Beyond that Christianity is a religion... and christians are simply people that choose to join one of the many diferent Christian sects.

Edited by dre, 15 August 2011 - 02:35 PM.

[Oleg Bach]

The bible is most definately NOT the word of god. It is the result of a political process in which a large body of christian writings, many of them in conflict and at odds with each other, were arbitrarily selected or rejected, and many of the writings were declared.

The reality is that you dont know who wrote the bible or how it was written and compiled, and you dont know which parts were specifically excluded.

Beyond that Christianity is a religion... and christians are simply people that choose to join one of the many diferent Christian sects.

Never remember anything written that stated Jesus - wanted to start a religion..an orgainized world wide in-corporation that had many offices and sects...really I simply do not believe that Christianity ever survived in it's true form once Chirst was killed...You must go to the very begining to understand the concept - and remove every last apostic saying and de-saint every saint to get to the core...If it was real Christianity - there would be world peace...and there is none.

[Michael Hardner]

Beyond that Christianity is a religion...

I don't think you can call it a religion. It's a philosophy upon which a set of religions is based.

I think it's possible to be Christian without being religious.

[dre]

I don't think you can call it a religion. It's a philosophy upon which a set of religions is based.

I think it's possible to be Christian without being religious.

I dont really see how. Everything we know and believe about Jesus comes from the bible which is the churches handbook that IT published. I cant quite see how a christian could exist outside of this framework. Can you ellaborate on how that would work?

[Michael Hardner]

I dont really see how. Everything we know and believe about Jesus comes from the bible which is the churches handbook that IT published. I cant quite see how a christian could exist outside of this framework. Can you ellaborate on how that would work?

I don't understand your point either. The philosophy of Jesus was published by an organization, that has since splintered and declined - and so ? What's to stop somebody from reading the book and deciding that they like what's in it ?

[jacee]

Who decides who is a 'real' Christian?
Who decides who is a 'real' Muslim?

I'll bet it depends on whether they contribute MONEY to a church that has tax-free status - ie, legal, government approved status.
I believe that those who persist in pushing their religion on others are more followers of Paul the Roman who institutionalised the corporate church, than Jesus who simply drew people to him.

[betsy]

Since there is no widely agreed-upon definition of Christian, though, you almost have to allow people to define themselves as Christians or not. Someone who believes part of the books of Christian teachings could consider themselves a 'Christian'.

There is a clear definition of a Christian in the Bible.

1Peter 4
Suffering for Being a Christian
12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.
16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

And definitely, belief in God is a requirement. Please take special note on verses 16 and 17.

16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

"and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God"

Us, meaning, Christians.

Praise God that you bear that name - Christian.

So he is saying...
A Christian not only believes in God....but he also obeys the gospel of God.

Therefore, the Christian I mean in this topic, is the Biblical Christian. Not the secularist...or the relativist...or the trendy or fad christian.

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 06:00 PM.