220 replies to this topic

[betsy]

Acts 11

The Church in Antioch
19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
22 News of this reached the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23 When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. 24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Acts 26

28Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?"

29 Paul replied, “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.”

And by Paul's response, it is clearly indicated that a Christian is what Paul is. And with Paul's background before becoming an Apostle - the message is clear.

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 05:31 PM.

[betsy]

Before Paul- Saul of Tarsus - became a believer in Christ, he hunted down and persecuted Christians. Here is a a little explanation of what he was and how he came to believe.

Acts 26
1 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You have permission to speak for yourself.”

So Paul motioned with his hand and began his defense: 2 “King Agrippa, I consider myself fortunate to stand before you today as I make my defense against all the accusations of the Jews, 3 and especially so because you are well acquainted with all the Jewish customs and controversies. Therefore, I beg you to listen to me patiently.

4 “The Jewish people all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child, from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem. 5 They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that I conformed to the strictest sect of our religion, living as a Pharisee. 6 And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our ancestors that I am on trial today. 7 This is the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to see fulfilled as they earnestly serve God day and night. King Agrippa, it is because of this hope that these Jews are accusing me. 8 Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?

9 “I too was convinced that I ought to do all that was possible to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the Lord’s people in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. 11 Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. I was so obsessed with persecuting them that I even hunted them down in foreign cities.

12 “On one of these journeys I was going to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests. 13 About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. 14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,[a] ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’

15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’

“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

19 “So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. 20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. 21 That is why some Jews seized me in the temple courts and tried to kill me. 22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen— 23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

24 At this point Festus interrupted Paul’s defense. “You are out of your mind, Paul!” he shouted. “Your great learning is driving you insane.”

25 “I am not insane, most excellent Festus,” Paul replied. “What I am saying is true and reasonable. 26 The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner. 27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.”

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

29 Paul replied, “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.”

30 The king rose, and with him the governor and Bernice and those sitting with them. 31 After they left the room, they began saying to one another, “This man is not doing anything that deserves death or imprisonment.”

32 Agrippa said to Festus, “This man could have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar.”

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 05:39 PM.

[Michael Hardner]

There is a clear definition of a Christian in the Bible.

But would Jesus have approved with what was said about him later ?

I prefer to let him speak for himself - and The Golden Rule is a better summary of what his philosophy means.

[betsy]

But would Jesus have approved with what was said about him later ?

? I don't follow.

I prefer to let him speak for himself - and The Golden Rule is a better summary of what his philosophy means.

Well, you say you believe in Christ because of His teachings. You talk about His philosophy.
So your response is rather confusing.

How did you happen to learn about His teachings and Philosphy? Please explain.

[Michael Hardner]

How did you happen to learn about His teachings and Philosphy? Please explain.

I read them, and they were read to me as a child.

[betsy]

As for Canadien, here's a response from him posted in The Bible. I moved it here since this is the appropriate thread for it.

Betsy:

Canadien, I moved our discussion about being a Christian in a separate topic.

Let's be clear. The fact that I am a Christian is a topic for discussion between me and my Lord and Saviour (and my priest). Not you. Nor am I interested in your attempt at distorting what I say and mistepresentating m'y beliefs so that you push that non-sense insult at science and faith otherwise known as the"Intelligent Design Theory". I said all I need to say about what my faith is, and it is clear enough that there is no need for (mis)interpretation, so it is closed. No matter how many new threads you create so that you can say "Look how right I am, I have all those threads".

Period.

Does that mean you won't answer if you believe that God is the Creator, or the Intelligent Designer?

Edited by betsy, 15 August 2011 - 06:07 PM.

[betsy]

I read them, and they were read to me as a child.

From the Bible?

[Michael Hardner]

Yes !

[betsy]

But would Jesus have approved with what was said about him later ?

Please explain. I don't understand what you mean.

[betsy]

Yes !

But those things in the Bible....they were written by authors, who call themselves the Apostles. They claim that Jesus appointed them...taught them....so they can continue to spread His word. They claim Jesus said those things, they claim to have witnessed those things and more. You believe them.

[Michael Hardner]

But those things in the Bible....they were written by authors, who call themselves the Apostles. They claim that Jesus appointed them...taught them....so they can continue to spread His word. They claim Jesus said those things, they claim to have witnessed those things and more. You believe them.

One could believe their accounts, without believing their interpretations of the teachings.

[cybercoma]

betsy, do yourself a favour and read The Bible: A Biography by Karen Armstrong

[betsy]

Moved from the topic, The Bible.

If my posting and the previous one are not clear enough, if the APOSTLES'S CREED is not clear enough, then both the Creed and the English language are joining the growing list of things you do not understand.

Unless you are either:

God
one of His Angels
one of the Saints
the Pope (yes, I am Catholic)
my Bishop, or
my priest

You are not the judge of what I believe, how I live what I believe, how I express what I believe.

No, I am not the judge.

But you brought up this issue. As I've said, you strongly come across as agnostic or atheist by your own arguments with me in practically every topics I've posted about religion.

And your accusation that "CREATIONISM IS A FRAUD."

You corrected me about my "misconception" of you, and you claim you are a Christian. Since you seem so hostile against those who believe in Creation(to the point where you seem to be so well in-tuned and comfortable with the new atheists in this forum who'd been ridiculing the Bible, and you don't seem to believe that God created....or designed everything, therefore I ask you to explain why you think you are a Christian?

It's just as simple as that. You brought in a contradictory statement - bolstered by your attitude and views which appear to be in-line with the new atheists on this board. That statement declaring yourself to be a Christian came like a lightning bolt!
It does requires an explanation....unless of course, that statement was said...out of confusion, maybe?
You are not sure where you stand that's why you do not wish to elaborate on it?
You cannot explain your position because they're clashing against one another and they cannot be reconciled, perhaps?

I don't know. I can only speculate that you're confused.

Edited by betsy, 16 August 2011 - 04:02 AM.

[betsy]

One could believe their accounts, without believing their interpretations of the teachings.

Believe their accounts about the birth and death of Christ.
The Pentecost, the miracles, His resurrection....His diety.
That they were personally appointed - and taught by Jesus Himself.


And yet not believe their "interpretations" of the teachings?

How can that be? Yes, the Apostles did the writing.

But if you believe their accounts, therefore you must believe "their interpretations" - which according to their account comes from the Holy Spirit/Christ.

Edited by betsy, 16 August 2011 - 03:56 AM.

[Michael Hardner]

But if you believe their accounts, therefore you must believe "their interpretations" - which according to their account comes from the Holy Spirit/Christ.

No, you can believe what is believable to you, and leave out the rest. Certainly the teachings and parables can stand alone as a philosophy, and are likely closer to the actual words and deeds of the man than many of the stories of miracles and so on.