17 replies to this topic

[August1991]

Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan leader calls Muammar Gaddafi’s killing an ‘outrage’. Hugo Chavez expressed anger over the death of Muammar Gaddafi and declared the ousted Libyan tyrant was a martyr.

Link

What will Iran's president say? Hamas? Our union leaders?

[jbg]

Link

What will Iran's president say? Hamas? Our union leaders?

He's making a mistake by going there.

[Shady]

Isn't Hugo Chavez a big hero of the left, even in North America? How do they defend this type of idiocy?

Edited by Shady, 22 October 2011 - 11:55 AM.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's Hugo....he will soon join Gadaffy due to natural causes.

[Post To The Left]

It's Hugo....he will soon join Gadaffy due to natural causes.

Didn't you hear there is a "conspiracy" of medical professionals trying to kill him!

Hugo Chavez cancer claim doctor flees Venezuela

A doctor who said Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez had only two years to live has fled the country saying he fears for his life.
-- BBC 22 October 2011

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord Acton

[olp1fan]

Like it or not Gadaffi was better to his people pre revolution than who will govern
Libya next under Sharia Law, if I were a Libyan woman I would leave asap

[August1991]

A walk down memory lane...

Ceaușescu Ghaddafi

Castro Ghaddafi

Reagan Ghaddafi

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Like it or not Gadaffi was better to his people pre revolution than who will govern

Libya next under Sharia Law, if I were a Libyan woman I would leave asap

So now Progressives speak as the Americans supposedly used to speak: "He may be a sob, but he's our sob."

BTW, have you ever spoken to a Libyan woman?

Edited by August1991, 24 October 2011 - 02:56 PM.

[guyser]

BTW, have you ever spoken to a Libyan woman?

Only at the Pride Parade.




oh...Libyan...sorry.

Edited by guyser, 24 October 2011 - 03:05 PM.

[cybercoma]

Gaddhafi is a dirtbag.

The problem in Libya is going to be what happens next.

A commentator on a news program I was watching today made some interesting points. There is absolutely no civil society in Libya. They will need to build everything from the ground up. There are no courts--neither legal system nor infrastructure. There are no political parties. Moreover, Libya is not a homogeneous society. There are three different groups that apparently came together to fight against Italian colonialism during the interwar period. This could be a cluster... bomb.

[olp1fan]

saddam kept iraq from turning into AQ hell ... now look at it, people are too afraid to even go outside
its more dangerous than it was 10 years a go

you must hate reality... because libyas future looks very bleak now

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Edited by olp1fan, 25 October 2011 - 09:21 AM.

[August1991]

A commentator on a news program I was watching today made some interesting points. There is absolutely no civil society in Libya. They will need to build everything from the ground up. There are no courts--neither legal system nor infrastructure. There are no political parties. Moreover, Libya is not a homogeneous society. There are three different groups that apparently came together to fight against Italian colonialism during the interwar period. This could be a cluster... bomb.

Civil society? The latest buzz word....

Libya has about 6 million people and it sells about 500 million barrels of oil abroad every year. At $100 per barrel, that's annual revenue of about $50 billion. (Put that into the Canadian context and imagine a province receiving such an equalization payment.)

IMV, Libya has no problem except how various people/factions might fight to get control of the $50 billion annual payment. Heck, it happens in Canada too so as long as the fight is peaceful, it's business as usual.

[ToadBrother]

Civil society? The latest buzz word....

Libya has about 6 million people and it sells about 500 million barrels of oil abroad every year. At $100 per barrel, that's annual revenue of about $50 billion. (Put that into the Canadian context and imagine a province receiving such an equalization payment.)

IMV, Libya has no problem except how various people/factions might fight to get control of the $50 billion annual payment. Heck, it happens in Canada too so as long as the fight is peaceful, it's business as usual.

Well, therein lies the rub. In a so-called civil society, or as I prefer it, a society in which the rule of law is supreme, we have enforceable mechanisms to resolve such disputes. In a place like Libya, such mechanisms do not exist, as the state was pretty much embodied in Gaddafi, and was run at his whim.

For Libya to function properly is going to need not just constitutions and laws, but there is going to need to be a cultural shift by both the rulers and the ruled away from rule by fiat (or, more directly, rule by the sword) towards allowing the organs of state to take over. And that's tricky, because as so many point out, Libya is not a united state, it has various factions who have traditionally, even under Gaddafi's rule, not always been peaceable.

The problem with this revolution is that it's going to raise expectations, and the NTC seems to be in overdrive raising them beyond all means. They want quick elections, even while there is no formalized constitutional or government structure. They have guns all over the damned place and dubious control all of them. While everyone had one enemy, it was pretty easy, but this is the moment where factionalism could destroy everything. Somehow everyone is going to have to agree that once a constitution is written and put to a vote, that all parties will abide by that vote and bend to the law, whatever the law may be.

It's been done, to be sure, but it's a lot more difficult than the NTC seems to think.

[GostHacked]

Gaddhafi is a dirtbag.

The problem in Libya is going to be what happens next.

A commentator on a news program I was watching today made some interesting points. There is absolutely no civil society in Libya. They will need to build everything from the ground up.

They had already accomplished that under Gadhafi. Som they actually they need to rebuild everything from the ground up .. again.

There are no courts--neither legal system nor infrastructure.

Correct, humanitarian bombs took care of that as well.

There are no political parties. Moreover, Libya is not a homogeneous society. There are three different groups that apparently came together to fight against Italian colonialism during the interwar period. This could be a cluster... bomb.

This will be a cluster bomb. Listening to the likes of Webster Tarpley, is saying the same thing we see in Iraq where the different tribes are now fighting each other, is going to be the same in Libya. Before they were not at each others throat under Saddam. For Libya, these factions unified to fight back Italy, and possibly under Gadhafi, and now, they will be pitted against each other. This to me is another example of divide and conquer. Gadhafi was not as bad as people think he is, or how our western media portrays him. It would not matter who was in power in Libya, the west wanted oil. And now we are going to get it, at their huge expense.

But hey the new NTC leader is calling for Sharia Law in Libya. Now that's freedom right there folks! /sarcasm

[GostHacked]

saddam kept iraq from turning into AQ hell ... now look at it, people are too afraid to even go outside
its more dangerous than it was 10 years a go

you must hate reality... because libyas future looks very bleak now

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This is my concern as well. Wherever the west has intervened under this war on terror, things have gotten worse.

Iraq still faces weekly bombings (suicide, truck/car bombs, ect ect ect) and with high casualties.
Afghanistan under Karzai brought Sharia Law back into the land, when the Taliban and their Sharia Law was kicked out.

I do recall some neighbors of my aunt (here in ottawa) had lived in Libya during the 90s. I do recall them saying it was a very good place to live and the standards of living were comparable to that of western cultures/societies.

[cybercoma]

They didn't do that under Ghaddafi. They have no political parties, no judiciary, nothing. That's the problem right now.

By the bye, I provided the link to "civil society" because I wanted people to understand that I meant the structure of social institutions that are completely missing in Libya right now.