50 replies to this topic

[cybercoma]

not at all the same...I don't agree with banning horses sold as meat, as domestic animals the product is controlled as is the harvesting of it... but the shark harvest has no control the uncontrolled hunt is destroying viability of shark population the oceans top apex predator...

That's not actually true about horsemeat. There are antibiotics and contaminants in horsemeat that make its consumption dangerous. The horses that go to the slaughter are not raised specifically as food. They're pets, racehorses and workhorses that are no longer wanted.

[wyly]

That's not actually true about horsemeat. There are antibiotics and contaminants in horsemeat that make its consumption dangerous. The horses that go to the slaughter are not raised specifically as food. They're pets, racehorses and workhorses that are no longer wanted.

which are used for pet food...

[Wilber]

How well a ban can be enforced is beside the point, a clear statement has to be made that killing sharks for fins is not socially acceptable or environmentally sustainable. Some shark populations are down over 90% and extinction for some species is not that far off. There should be a real social stigma applied to this practice. That more than anything will discourage most people from indulging.

[Archanfel]

How well a ban can be enforced is beside the point, a clear statement has to be made that killing sharks for fins is not socially acceptable or environmentally sustainable. Some shark populations are down over 90% and extinction for some species is not that far off. There should be a real social stigma applied to this practice. That more than anything will discourage most people from indulging.

Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line?

If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins.

[Michael Hardner]

Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line?

If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins.

They're becoming extinct.

[The_Squid]

Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line?

If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins.

It's not eating shark that is at issue. It is the unsustainable and wasteful practice (in other countries) of killing sharks for a small portion of the meat and wasting the rest.

These sharks are being overfished because of it.

[Archanfel]

It's not eating shark that is at issue. It is the unsustainable and wasteful practice (in other countries) of killing sharks for a small portion of the meat and wasting the rest.

These sharks are being overfished because of it.

Then target the practice. Encourage legal fin supplies to push poachers out of the market. You can't fight against greed, it's a lost battle. Use greed to fight greed. Don't tell me you seriously think banning shark fins in Toronto would do anything. Banning it in Hong Kong, maybe, even then it would flourish in the black market. That's human nature. You have to find an alternative supply.

Alternatively, remember what happened at maple leaf? wink, wink.

Edited by Archanfel, 29 November 2011 - 05:03 PM.

[The_Squid]

Then target the practice. Encourage legal fin supplies to push poachers out of the market. You can't fight against greed, it's a lost battle. Use greed to fight greed. Don't tell me you seriously think banning shark fins in Toronto would do anything. Banning it in Hong Kong, maybe, even then it would flourish in the black market. That's human nature. You have to find an alternative supply.

Alternatively, remember what happened at maple leaf? wink, wink.

The poaching is occuring in other countries. Nothing Toronto can do about that.

This should be a Canada-wide ban, but federal inaction is causing local jurisdictions to do what the federal gov't should be doing. Probably in the hopes that the feds will be pushed to do something...

[Archanfel]

The poaching is occuring in other countries. Nothing Toronto can do about that.

This should be a Canada-wide ban, but federal inaction is causing local jurisdictions to do what the federal gov't should be doing. Probably in the hopes that the feds will be pushed to do something...

Not if Toronto has a shark farm that can supply fins at 50% of the price as these "other countries" as long as people are clear this is for the preservation of the species rather than animal welfare (to keep price down, these farm sharks will likely be abused, I don't want to hear a peep from you guys). You can even flood the market with fake shark fins. Never fight the greed, let it fight itself. You just need to give it a push in the right direction.

[The_Squid]

Your "solutions" make no sense.

[Wilber]

Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line?

If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins.

We raise cows and potatoes domesticaly, they are not wild animals. We have all sorts of laws that govern how many fish of what species can be taken from our streams, lakes and oceans in order to protect fish stocks. Sharks that are endangered by heavy fishing pressure should be no different.

Who knows if raising sharks for their fins alone is even economically viable. If we are taking them from the wild at a rate that endangers the species, it needs to stop.

[Archanfel]

We raise cows and potatoes domesticaly, they are not wild animals. We have all sorts of laws that govern how many fish of what species can be taken from our streams, lakes and oceans in order to protect fish stocks. Sharks that are endangered by heavy fishing pressure should be no different.

Who knows if raising sharks for their fins alone is even economically viable. If we are taking them from the wild at a rate that endangers the species, it needs to stop.

My point is that you can't make it stop by banning shark fins in Toronto, but not in Markham. You can't even make it stop by banning it in Canada, but not in Hong Kong. It's stupid. We have laws that govern fishing, but we didn't ban eating fishes in certain cities, did we?

China is probably one of the "other countries", their fishermen drove their seafood stocks to the verge of collapse (probably did collapse). Yet China is the biggest seafood producer today because they "domesticated" all kinds of fishes and shrimps. Environmentalists didn't save their wild fishes, capitalists did. Instead of paying lip services to protecting sharks that we both know would do next to nothing, we perhaps should get off our moral high horse and making domesticating sharks a profitable business. Only then would the wild shark population be saved.

BTW, did you know the Chinese domesticated salmons? They keep them in a large cage, artificially feed them and sell them around the world. Who knew if raising salmons is even economically viable? But the Chinese tried and succeeded. Now environmentalists will tell you fish farming is bad for the environment and bad for people eating them. Animal lovers will tell you it's cruel to the fishes. So judge it for yourself. Should we ban salmon eating or should we find some creative way of preserving the wild stocks.

[Michael Hardner]

My point is that you can't make it stop by banning shark fins in Toronto, but not in Markham. You can't even make it stop by banning it in Canada, but not in Hong Kong. It's stupid. We have laws that govern fishing, but we didn't ban eating fishes in certain cities, did we?

No, but you can raise awareness and you can say "we are not going to support this".

[Archanfel]

No, but you can raise awareness and you can say "we are not going to support this".

The only awareness you raised is some people in Canada is hypocritical and discriminative against minorities. Banning the usage of all wild animals (including fish oils, wild salmon consumption and seal pelts), then maybe you got a point.

Edited by Archanfel, 30 November 2011 - 06:39 AM.

[cybercoma]

Seals aren't endangered and salmon is mostly farmed. That's not at all the same thing as sharks being hunted to extinction for just their fins while the rest of the animal is simply disposed.