77 replies to this topic

[Smallc]

This article is really interesting, as it echoes something that I've heard recently - namely that an aging population will not in fact put large strain on the healthcare system.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...e-spending.html

[Michael Hardner]

This article is really interesting, as it echoes something that I've heard recently - namely that an aging population will not in fact put large strain on the healthcare system.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/11/03/health-care-spending.html

The CIHI produced the report, and they're our best option for healthcare information.

Indeed countries that didn't experience a baby boom have had medical expenses rise at a similar rate, from what I've read. We're just ... spending more. I maintain that it would be better for the public to have visibility into what is costing more money and why. I suspect that new drugs, new technology and more use of services is at the core of it. The article sheds some light on that, but we need more information.

[wyly]

expenses will peak and die down (literally) as boomers croak...

and apparently a fair number of boomers are offing themselves rather than endure long illnesses, immobility or just loneliness...

[Topaz]

I like to see a graph of where the money is being spent. I'm sure the operating cost and labour will be the two leading expenses. You may be able to trim the operating costs, but you won't trim back labour cost until we don't need that many doctors or nurses. I also, believe that all the nurses do earn their pay and most of the doctors.

[Handsome Rob]

I'm interested to know what effect baby boomer retirement will have on lost tax revenue, and increased expenditures across the board from health care to OAS, etc.

Surely it's a much larger picture than this?

[Smallc]

I'm interested to know what effect baby boomer retirement will have on lost tax revenue

I don't know if that's going to happen. Many boomers plan to keep working long into their 70s.

[Handsome Rob]

I don't know if that's going to happen. Many boomers plan to keep working long into their 70s.

But surely by that age consumption slows down? You don't see soon-to-be retiree's lining up for Iphones or replacing the car every 4 years. Less consumption, less money circulation, retirement investments turn to security rather than increased gains, house sold for a condo...

Frivolous thoughts? Or not?

[wyly]

I like to see a graph of where the money is being spent. I'm sure the operating cost and labour will be the two leading expenses. You may be able to trim the operating costs, but you won't trim back labour cost until we don't need that many doctors or nurses. I also, believe that all the nurses do earn their pay and most of the doctors.

nurses, mds, technicians, administration, maintenance personnel, hospitals, drugs, equipment where are we going to cut?...if there is waste it's in inefficiency and that can always be fine tuned, and is...

I don't see problems so much in overspending but under spending...healthcare is expensive and always will be but what is more important than our health?...healthcare and education are the best value for dollar spent we have...

[wyly]

I don't know if that's going to happen. Many boomers plan to keep working long into their 70s.

I don't plan to quit, when you stop moving/working you start dying...I'll work till I can't move then I'll do myself in...

[Smallc]

I don't plan to quit, when you stop moving/working you start dying..

Pretty much. I work 4 10 - 12 hour days a week, and I plan to do that for a very very long time (though not necessarily where I live or what I'm doing.

[Handsome Rob]

nurses, mds, technicians, administration, maintenance personnel, hospitals, drugs, equipment where are we going to cut?...if there is waste it's in inefficiency and that can always be fine tuned, and is...

I don't see problems so much in overspending but under spending...healthcare is expensive and always will be but what is more important than our health?...healthcare and education are the best value for dollar spent we have...

I can tell you that provincially, we have 6 separate health authorities. 6 complete bureaucracies all set on the same task, complete with public sector wages & benefits, capital expenses and everything else.

If we managed to turf 5 of them, and that led to more radiologists, anaesthesiologists, etc, which the province seems unwilling to pay for, I'd jump for joy.

Every organization that has ever existed has inefficiencies.

[dre]

The CIHI produced the report, and they're our best option for healthcare information.

Indeed countries that didn't experience a baby boom have had medical expenses rise at a similar rate, from what I've read. We're just ... spending more. I maintain that it would be better for the public to have visibility into what is costing more money and why. I suspect that new drugs, new technology and more use of services is at the core of it. The article sheds some light on that, but we need more information.

Theres WAY more to it than that. The reason healthcare costs are rising in the west is the exact same reason why the costs of producing everything else is rising in the west as well. A big part of is simply inflation.

Look at the various "stuffs" involved in healthcare.

1. The parcel of land to build a hospital on costs about 5 times as much as it would have cost 25 years ago.

2. A sheet of plywood has increased from 5 dollars to 15 or 20.

3. A yard of concrete has increased from 50 dollars to about 150.

4. A litre of gas has increased from 20 cents to a 1.30.

5. The cost of hiring staff (not just doctors and nurses but all the rest of the staff as well).


We cant afford our own healthcare for the exact same reason we cant afford our own textiles.


We have gotten around this in other areas by offshoring production to markets where production is still cheap, but the healthcare industry has been the most successful in avoiding this kind of competition.

[wyly]

I can tell you that provincially, we have 6 separate health authorities. 6 complete bureaucracies all set on the same task, complete with public sector wages & benefits, capital expenses and everything else.

If we managed to turf 5 of them, and that led to more radiologists, anaesthesiologists, etc, which the province seems unwilling to pay for, I'd jump for joy.

Every organization that has ever existed has inefficiencies.

well sure but we need to look at them with a critical eye...how inefficient are they really? are we looking for perfection? because we'll never achieve that...

mrs wyly works in medical administration and is short staffed(she works 10hr days 5 days per,she's not home yet so today it's 11hrs), so things don't get done asap because of a shortage of administrative help, but public demand for lower taxes has restricted funds to fill positions, then come the complaints "why does it take so long"...it's a never ending cycle...

[wyly]

Theres WAY more to it than that. The reason healthcare costs are rising in the west is the exact same reason why the costs of producing everything else is rising in the west as well. A big part of is simply inflation.

Look at the various "stuffs" involved in healthcare.

1. The parcel of land to build a hospital on costs about 5 times as much as it would have cost 25 years ago.

2. A sheet of plywood has increased from 5 dollars to 15 or 20.

3. A yard of concrete has increased from 50 dollars to about 150.

4. A litre of gas has increased from 20 cents to a 1.30.

5. The cost of hiring staff (not just doctors and nurses but all the rest of the staff as well).


We cant afford our own healthcare for the exact same reason we cant afford our own textiles.


We have gotten around this in other areas by offshoring production to markets where production is still cheap, but the healthcare industry has been the most successful in avoiding this kind of competition.

oh! here we go again ...

[Michael Hardner]

Theres WAY more to it than that. The reason healthcare costs are rising in the west is the exact same reason why the costs of producing everything else is rising in the west as well. A big part of is simply inflation.

Look at the various "stuffs" involved in healthcare. ...

I believe the article said that costs rose, in real dollars i.e. after taking inflation into account.

Anyway, I don't think you're necessarily wrong - but the real question is "why don't we know this" ?