212 replies to this topic

[dre]

http://www.cnn.com/v...duan-tax-me.cnn


A bunch of millionairs have shown up and demanded that congress raise taxes on the rich.

People in the "occupy" movement should take notice of this, and in my opinion we need to change the way this is all being framed.

I would drop a lot of the class warfare rhetoric and the "1% vs 99%" stuff. Youre never going to build a populist movement around this concept because EVERYONE wants to get rich. As shown above not all wealthy people want to loot our civilization into the stone ages.

Instead we should frame it this...

"Everyone VS a corrupt and unsustainable financial and monetary system"

This is pretty easy to do, because businesses in the productive economy are some of the biggest victims or our corrupt financial system, and our fraudulent money system. The FED/Wallstreet and their little games, victimized businesses and many wealthy people around the world.

This should expose the fact that even though the people who support the current financial and monetary regime are "PRO BUSINESS" they really arent. Opposition to fixing the system is actually most ANTI BUSINESS adgenda out there today.

The reality is that MOST of the richest 1% got rich simply by supply products and services that we want and need. These people should not be demonized.

So ditch the 1 VS 99, and all the class warfare stuff, and stop attacking the concept of wealth. And focus instead on the fact that every single producer in our economy has a direct interest making sure these structural issues get fixed.

Edited by dre, 17 November 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[American Woman]

I would drop a lot of the class warfare rhetoric and the "1% vs 99%" stuff.

I've said that repeatedly - pointing out that the 99% includes millionaires. This "we are the 99%" nonsense, as if "we" all stand in solidarity against the evil 1%, as if "we" are all in the same category/situation in life, has been ridiculous right from the get-go.

[dre]

I've said that repeatedly - pointing out that the 99% includes millionaires. This "we are the 99%" nonsense, as if "we" all stand in solidarity against the evil 1%, as if "we" are all in the same category/situation in life, has been ridiculous right from the get-go.

Yup the enemy has been incorrectly defined. Its not wealthy people its a financial sector jam packed with fraud (much of it legal) and an internation banking system that steals trillions of dollars from taxpayers with the mere stroke of a pen.

The "1%" might actually be our best hope to change the system, and the people best poised to articulate what the real problems are.

[wyly]

Yup the enemy has been incorrectly defined. Its not wealthy people its a financial sector jam packed with fraud (much of it legal) and an internation banking system that steals trillions of dollars from taxpayers with the mere stroke of a pen.

The "1%" might actually be our best hope to change the system, and the people best poised to articulate what the real problems are.

"1%" is less of a mouthful and makes the point quicker than "the financial sector jam packed with fraud (much of it legal) and an internation banking system that steals trillions of dollars from taxpayers with the mere stroke of a pen."...

I get what your saying but I think most people understand what is meant by 1% as well...

[dre]

"1%" is less of a mouthful and makes the point quicker than "the financial sector jam packed with fraud (much of it legal) and an internation banking system that steals trillions of dollars from taxpayers with the mere stroke of a pen."...

I get what your saying but I think most people understand what is meant by 1% as well...

But 1% sets up a class warfare theme, and generalizes people based on wealth. Wealth per say isnt the problem. The problem is the 1% of the 1% who are actually running the show and administering the scam.

But more importantly you cant build a real populist movement if you frame things this way because 99% of the 99% also would like to be wealthy.

If you frame this in the terms I laid out, then suddenly your tent is full of a whole lot of people. Polls suggest faith in our economic system is at an all time low. Only 25% think the system works. And most of the 1% realizes theres pretty major problems as well.

If you build a tent that has room for all these people then youll get somewhere. You can build an articulate populist movement if you frame things in these terms. You CANT build a populist movement around "rich people suck dude!".

The teaparty, occupy, and wealthy people like the ones that appeared before congress are actually after the same thing. They just approach it from different perspectives.

Edited by dre, 17 November 2011 - 02:01 PM.

[Michael Hardner]

How about we all pay attention to what our economic system is doing, we vote responsibly, and we hold our leaders to their promises ? Is that really so fantastic ?

[dre]

How about we all pay attention to what our economic system is doing, we vote responsibly, and we hold our leaders to their promises ? Is that really so fantastic ?

The problem with that, is that almost nobody understands how the system works. Its so abstract to most people that even when someone can articulate what the problems are it just goes right over most peoples heads.

A lot of prominent people have been warning us about this scam for a long time. And these arent people who camp in some park...

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." -- Henry Ford

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." -- Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." -- Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank

Even people inside the system have been trying to warn us where it would take us. But its a very hard message to get across.

How do you educate the population about such an important subject, and the subject matter is quite frankly as boring as hell? Monetary and economic theory is not a very "sexy" political subject. Even though its by far the most important subject of our time.

95% of people could not even give you an accurate description of WHAT MONEY IS.

Edited by dre, 17 November 2011 - 02:25 PM.

[wyly]

How about we all pay attention to what our economic system is doing, we vote responsibly, and we hold our leaders to their promises ? Is that really so fantastic ?

yup...when it comes to the average voter i'm not very optimistic on their ability to make an intelligent choice...i'd be very pleased to be proven wrong...

[Michael Hardner]

Wyly & Dre:

I say simplify the system without giving an advantage to any economic group. I say demand that government departments publicize their budgets, activities and performance levels. Demand that government publicize project details, and whether or not they attained their goals.

The system is too complex, and there's an entire subgroup of society that makes a good living explaining it to us, well... explaining it as they see it.

[jacee]

The millionaires want the panel to raise taxes on people who earn more than $1 million, even though most Republicans are committed against the idea.

COOL!
OCCUPY can claim some influence!

This is exactly the kind of outcome that makes sense.
It's a start!

[dre]

The system is too complex, and there's an entire subgroup of society that makes a good living explaining it to us, well... explaining it as they see it.

A good friend of mine has actually made educating people about our economic and monetary system his lifes work.

Heres one of his videos. I highly recommend it. If you have time give it a watch and let me know what you think.



Its an animated movie that meant to make things easy to understand.

I say simplify the system without giving an advantage to any economic group.

We cant do that until people understand what the system is meant to do. What is money, and why do we need it?

Every wonder how its even mathematically possible that all governments, corporations and families can all be in debt at the SAME TIME? How can it be possible that the actual producers of real goods and services in our economy can be so deeply in debt to banks that have empty vaults and no money? Its simple... a tiny group of the worlds most wealthy men lobbied the government for power to charge usury on money that doesnt even exist.

Heres a quote from the guy that created the law in the US that set up this scam, once he realized what he done by privatizing credit/money.

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. -Woodrow Wilson

Did you know that 95% of all currency in circulation was not created by the treasury or government but was instead created as bank credit? Given the fact that all of this national debt is actually monetary expansion, not real "borrowing", and given the fact that the government has the right to coin its own money, ever ask yourself how the government can possibly owe all this interest to international bankers?

Edited by dre, 17 November 2011 - 02:57 PM.

[American Woman]

The millionaires want the panel to raise taxes on people who earn more than $1 million, even though most Republicans are committed against the idea.

COOL!
OCCUPY can claim some influence!

Guess again.

A group called "Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength" wants Congress to raise their taxes.

The coalition of business leaders and entrepreneurs wrote a letter to President Obama and Congress saying "Raise our taxes." The group of about 140 millionaires says the economy has helped them and they want to return the favor.

Patriotic Millionaires formed about a year ago in support of ending the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy. link

OCCUPY had nothing to do with it.

Edited by American Woman, 17 November 2011 - 02:35 PM.

[jacee]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2011/11/16/tsr-bolduan-tax-me.cnn


A bunch of millionairs have shown up and demanded that congress raise taxes on the rich.

People in the "occupy" movement should take notice of this, and in my opinion we need to change the way this is all being framed.

I would drop a lot of the class warfare rhetoric and the "1% vs 99%" stuff. Youre never going to build a populist movement around this concept because EVERYONE wants to get rich. As shown above not all wealthy people want to loot our civilization into the stone ages.

Instead we should frame it this...

"Everyone VS a corrupt and unsustainable financial and monetary system"

This is pretty easy to do, because businesses in the productive economy are some of the biggest victims or our corrupt financial system, and our fraudulent money system. The FED/Wallstreet and their little games, victimized businesses and many wealthy people around the world.

This should expose the fact that even though the people who support the current financial and monetary regime are "PRO BUSINESS" they really arent. Opposition to fixing the system is actually most ANTI BUSINESS adgenda out there today.

The reality is that MOST of the richest 1% got rich simply by supply products and services that we want and need. These people should not be demonized.

So ditch the 1 VS 99, and all the class warfare stuff, and stop attacking the concept of wealth. And focus instead on the fact that every single producer in our economy has a direct interest making sure these structural issues get fixed.

I don't agree. The 1% are not merely business owners earning good money: They are EXTREME wealth, FAR above even the 96-99%'rs, whom I would call the 'ordinarily wealthy'. The 1% hold 40% of the wealth of Canada, make buckets from the stock exchange and other investments including PUBLIC DEBT. They do this by manipulating and corrupting both governments and markets.

Those are the ones we need to de-claw.
The ordinarily wealthy can help out by paying more taxes if they want, but they're not the real culprits.

[dre]

I don't agree. The 1% are not merely business owners earning good money: They are EXTREME wealth, FAR above even the 96-99%'rs, whom I would call the 'ordinarily wealthy'. The 1% hold 40% of the wealth of Canada, make buckets from the stock exchange and other investments including PUBLIC DEBT. They do this by manipulating and corrupting both governments and markets.

Those are the ones we need to de-claw.
The ordinarily wealthy can help out by paying more taxes if they want, but they're not the real culprits.

The real "culprits" are not the "1%" either. They are a tiny subset of the "1%". The problem is the system itself, and the fundamental rules of the financial monetary system.

[Michael Hardner]

A good friend of mine has actually made educating people about our economic and monetary system his lifes work.

Heres one of his videos. I highly recommend it. If you have time give it a watch and let me know what you think.



Its an animated movie that meant to make things easy to understand.

I have seen that before. It was informative, but the recommendations seemed too drastic to implement.