26 replies to this topic

[Michael Hardner]

This is one the aspects I am getting at, i.e.the smartphone, that now allows TV, video, text, pictures and direct communications, in a small, mobile device and hints at an immersive, participatory experience. We often think of 'virtual reality' in terms of fiction, but we are seeing devices that allow us to construct virtual realities in a very realistic way, of almost being there.

Ok... in "Understanding Media" ALL electric media is seen as a projection of the central nervous system, and an externalization of the CNS. As such, our consciousness is being willingly exported to outside our bodies.

I carry an iPhone, with Wikipedia on it. So I no longer need to remember any general knowledge. I have my personal knowledge, and my wisdom in my brain still, at least at this point.

[Michael Hardner]

And... some other points about MLW...

As a new medium (with web content) it has rediscovered the Socratic Method for those of us who like to discuss and learn.

Regular posters on here have exposure to many more opinions, having read both sides of the issues from multiple points. I suspect that they could even argue the positions of those television-watchers who disagree with them.

When I hear political conversation between a liberal and conservative at a party, it's rare when I hear a point brought out that hasn't been posted on here hundreds of times. In fact, it's rare when I hear an opinion (in the real world) that seems to have been actually challenged by someone with an opposing view. Maybe we're too polite nowadays...

In any case, my experience notwithstanding, debate and discussion is what Western (American) democracy was built on, so I do believe that political forums fit it like a glove. We just have to get the glove back on.

[Shwa]

I don't think it's about ethics, but rather what works and doesn't work. Our system of democracy makes certain assumptions about an informed public, the role of the press and so on. If those assumptions don't hold, then the system is being used differently than what it was designed for.

Our system of democracy is based on choice. That is, I have the franchise, but there is no compelling reason - like a law - for me to exercise it; and, if I do, to exercise it as I see fit. This is the element of design that over rides all other assumptions. So I can choose not to choose and this fact has been indicated in every single election held in Canada. Ethics is all about choice.

Or, people are happy enough with the system that they don't see the need to bore themselves with such matters and would rather pursue their own interests.

Is that another way of saying what you said ?

Pretty much, but I am not sure "happy" is the correct term. Perhaps satisfied that the choice they make is as effective as it will ever be and thus, for some of those that choose not to participate, a sense of acceptance of the status quo.

You don't see government as being more complex than it was 30 years ago ?

No, it is always relative.

I do. There's always more legislation and more complex and nuanced programs to address a particular problem. We now have maternity leave, subsidized day care, and the list goes on.

Sure we do, but we also have much better ways of accessing or addressing the government which reveals so much more than was possible before. There is more specificity, which can lead to the appearance of complexity, but appearances aren't always everything.

I'm currently rereading 'Understanding Media', and yes he does envision the extent of social media and participation. That is his whole thesis, as he takes a very wide view of how content are consumed by new media.

If I hand you a folded telegram, it is clearly a message from another. But what does it say?

He didn't make analogies between the arrival of print and of television, in fact he said that they had the opposite effects ("explosion" versus "implosion").

In 'The Gutenberg Galaxy' written two years before 'Understanding Media' McLuhan makes a clear and convincing comparative analogy between the periods in which the print and electronic ages arose. The effects of each had similar outcomes on the societies of their days and are worth noting. Like disturbances on the status quo.

This is actually what you and I are doing on this thread right now, alebeit at an utterly insignificant level. McLuhan predicted that these interactions would be externalized, and that our whims would be captured by corporate interests.

Then I shudder when the day comes when a corporation can immerse me in the goose-bump experience of a warm sunbeam coming through a window on a cold winter's day. It will be one hellva way to sell a Coke.

Voting itself may not survive this change. I dunno either. What is clear is that people will be used to having more and more input on things in general.

Don't we already though? Our individual ability to correspond with another, with governments and institutions, are already over-loading the latter's ability to respond according to their own rules. It is amazing to see how much the simple email has replaced such correspondence or the ability to create and message those others compared to 30 years ago. And not just for urbanites either, this phenomenon is extended to rural and remote areas. A prospector can communicate real time from the remotest places on earth.

"And now I will finalize my input by clicking the 'post' button."

Me too! Except I'll click the "Add Reply" button since my medium is more accurate than yours.

[cybercoma]

It is. This is one of the reasons that MLW is attractive despite the distractions of the loons on the fringe.

Well, it's obvious the post is original, but I'm curious if he saw the argument somewhere else and decided to make a post about it.

[Shwa]

As such, our consciousness is being willingly exported to outside our bodies.

As this passage indicates. Willingness is just a barrier though, always has been. But note that I have edited the product of your consciousness to suite my purpose and this required no willingness at all on your part.

I carry an iPhone, with Wikipedia on it. So I no longer need to remember any general knowledge. I have my personal knowledge, and my wisdom in my brain still, at least at this point.

All of which can make for a dumbed down society on the first EMP.

[cybercoma]

Some of the ideas are mine, some are ideas that I have had based on readings and from McLuhan's writings which give you a new way to look at technology.

I recommend a wonderful graphic book called "The Medium is the Massage" as an entry point to these theories. It's very accessible as it was written for high school students.

The theories presented give you a different way to look at technology, as I say, for the purpose of discussion its effects. All technology are media, which are extensions of man. When man extends his senses then other senses are cut back. We are very unaware of the effects of these changes on ourselves, and our world. Technology is a trojan horse that brings hidden challenges within it.

The goal of McLuhan's work, as I said, is to give people the tools to discuss such changes as they happen, to have perception of what occurs when media change. He didn't make blunt predictions such as "computers will drive cars" or what have you.

I'm only vaguely familiar with McLuhan's work. How you've applied it to contemporary issues is really interesting though. Great post.

[Michael Hardner]

Ethics is all about choice.

That may be so, but there are other issues involving choices that don't involve ethics. For me, this is about what works and nothing else. The identity of the individual as an ethical being may play into it somehow but I'd have to think about that.

No, it is always relative.

Relative to ? Ok... is it more complex in an absolute sense then ?

Sure we do, but we also have much better ways of accessing or addressing the government which reveals so much more than was possible before. There is more specificity, which can lead to the appearance of complexity, but appearances aren't always everything.

You seem to be concurring that things are more complex today, but that we have ways of addressing it.

If I hand you a folded telegram, it is clearly a message from another. But what does it say?

I don't know what it says because it's folded over.

In 'The Gutenberg Galaxy' written two years before 'Understanding Media' McLuhan makes a clear and convincing comparative analogy between the periods in which the print and electronic ages arose. The effects of each had similar outcomes on the societies of their days and are worth noting. Like disturbances on the status quo.

Ok, I see now. Yes, absolutely - they have similar effects in that they disrupt the equilibrium that had evolved based on the media that were dominant in the previous age.

Don't we already though? Our individual ability to correspond with another, with governments and institutions, are already over-loading the latter's ability to respond according to their own rules.

Yes, "we" are overloading them according to "their" rules. They will have to change.

[Michael Hardner]

As this passage indicates. Willingness is just a barrier though, always has been. But note that I have edited the product of your consciousness to suite my purpose and this required no willingness at all on your part.

Good point. Willingness isn't required at all - my error.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm only vaguely familiar with McLuhan's work. How you've applied it to contemporary issues is really interesting though. Great post.

Well thanks. It's a fascinating subject to me.

[Shwa]

Well thanks. It's a fascinating subject to me.

McLuhan & Frye should be compulsory reads in high schools. They are that important.

[Shwa]

I don't know what it says because it's folded over.

But you know it is a message right, you just don't know the contents. The medium IS the message after all. So you unfold and, voila! What is the first thing you see?

[Michael Hardner]

But you know it is a message right, you just don't know the contents. The medium IS the message after all. So you unfold and, voila! What is the first thing you see?

The mesasge.... is this leading me anywhere ? It doesn't feel like it.