346 replies to this topic

[AusKanada]

So, you're in favour of creating bureaucratic red tape that robs people of their hard-earned money, just "because"?

Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I said I am against making it easy, not "just because." I think that if you want to own a firearm, you should bear the expense of the rigorous checks that should be enacted in your case. I don't want someone who is mentally unbalanced to get easy access to firearms, so you can have 3 pistols as show firearms...

[AusKanada]

So you’re in favour of licensing then right?

Absolutely. I am not against licensing, I am for a gun registry or at least a thorough licensing process.

[Derek L]

Ewww... an 870??? Invest in a real gun.

Hey, they’re dependable and have been around for years……..If they’re good enough for the police and military, they’re good enough for me………besides, I have lots and lots of real expensive guns in the safes.

[Derek L]

Absolutely. I am not against licensing, I am for a gun registry or at least a thorough licensing process.

We’re already required to have a licence……The entire process involves the Government checking references, spouses, mental heath and criminal histories etc………If we’re deemed fit to own a firearm, that should be good enough.

[Shakeyhands]

Absolutely. I am not against licensing, I am for a gun registry or at least a thorough licensing process.

There is a pretty thorough process in order to possess and purchase firearms already.

I still support the registry though because:

1 - In cases of domestic abuse, assault against another member of the general pub or mental issue investigations, the police know there are firearms registered to the person and they can be confiscated while the process plays out and a decision can be made by the courts as to return them or not.

2 - I'm not a crazy person who thinks that the Russians are going to invade and look up what is our equivalent to the ATF Form 4473.

3 - I also think it does no harm, and any extra tool that we can have that forces responsibility on gun owners is good.

[Derek L]

There is a pretty thorough process in order to possess and purchase firearms already.

I still support the registry though because:

1 - In cases of domestic abuse, assault against another member of the general pub or mental issue investigations, the police know there are firearms registered to the person and they can be confiscated while the process plays out and a decision can be made by the courts as to return them or not.

2 - I'm not a crazy person who thinks that the Russians are going to invade and look up what is our equivalent to the ATF Form 4473.

3 - I also think it does no harm, and any extra tool that we can have that forces responsibility on gun owners is good.

So when it’s gone, will you want to eventually see it come back?

[Shakeyhands]

So when it’s gone, will you want to eventually see it come back?

Nope, Why spend the money twice?

[Derek L]

Nope, Why spend the money twice?

Fair enough, Would you be apposed to your home Province setting up it’s own registry?

[Shakeyhands]

Fair enough, Would you be apposed to your home Province setting up it’s own registry?

Yes, because again... we've already paid (through the nose) for it. I think scrapping it is a stupid idea.

[Derek L]

Yes, because again... we've already paid (through the nose) for it. I think scrapping it is a stupid idea.

And fair enough again, so it’s reasonable to assume your support for the LGR is tepid at best……..You don’t want to see it go, but when it does, you don’t want to bring it back due to the expense…..So your suggestion that the LGR:

1 - In cases of domestic abuse, assault against another member of the general pub or mental issue investigations, the police know there are firearms registered to the person and they can be confiscated while the process plays out and a decision can be made by the courts as to return them or not.

2 - I'm not a crazy person who thinks that the Russians are going to invade and look up what is our equivalent to the ATF Form 4473.

3 - I also think it does no harm, and any extra tool that we can have that forces responsibility on gun owners is good.

Isn’t that important……..The RCMP says the LGR is useful……..Would one really expect a program administered by the RCMP to be deemed a waste by them also?

[Shakeyhands]

And fair enough again, so it’s reasonable to assume your support for the LGR is tepid at best……..You don’t want to see it go, but when it does, you don’t want to bring it back due to the expense…..So your suggestion that the LGR:



Isn’t that important……..The RCMP says the LGR is useful……..Would one really expect a program administered by the RCMP to be deemed a waste by them also?

My support for rebuilding the LGR is non-existent. My support for the existing LGR is tempered, by cost and usefulness, the first point I made is one that I believe is used by the police, though to be honest i am not sure it is. If that is what we are using it for, and to give the EXTRA EXTRA bit of protection and foresight to the police as they execute their duties... great. The creation was a bit of boondoggle and it cost us too much.

Why destroy it now that it is here? I bought a new shotgun just before Christmas and the LGR portion of the purchase took 2 mins max. Whats the big deal?

Why is there such reluctance to registering lg's? Unless you are living in the Red Dawn dream, there is really no reason not to. And how anyone thinks it makes hunters/farmers/collectors out to be criminals is beyond me, just register the damn things. If you aren't doing anything wrong who the hell cares?

Edited by Shakeyhands, 06 February 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[Derek L]

My support for rebuilding the LGR is non-existent. My support for the existing LGR is tempered, by cost and usefulness, the first point I made is one that I believe is used by the police, though to be honest i am not sure it is. If that is what we are using it for, and to give the EXTRA EXTRA bit of protection and foresight to the police as they execute their duties... great. The creation was a bit of boondoggle and it cost us too much.

But that has been one of the tent poles in favour of the LGR………But it stands to reason, those that would harm the police, likely won’t register their firearms.

Why destroy it now that it is here? I bought a new shotgun just before Christmas and the LGR portion of the purchase took 2 mins max. Whats the big deal?

Why is there such reluctance to registering lg's? Unless you are living in the Red Dawn dream, there is really no reason not to. And how anyone thinks it makes hunters/farmers/collectors out to be criminals is beyond me, just register the damn things. If you aren't doing anything wrong who the hell cares?

It’s about the principle namely for many………..If the Government deems us fit enough for a licence, that should be good enough……..And yes, many also have varying degrees of concern, not of Russians, but our own Government confiscating our firearms……..They’ve clearly demonstrated that ability….They can’t take what they don’t know exists.

I think the position of many is that since the LGR is useless in helping law enforcement “stay safe from criminals”, what is it’s real purpose?


For the record, I too don’t fear Russians, but I certainly do fear ignorant politicians, Crown prosecutors (Did you hear the once from the recent defence trial stating the defendant’s .38 revolver ejected spent casings?) and Zombies………Blood-----sucking------Zombies.

To add these gems, posted in an earlier thread:


"I came to Ottawa ... with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers." — Liberal minister of justice Allan Rock, 1994.

2. "C-68 has little to do with gun control or crime control, but it is the first step necessary to begin the social re-engineering of Canada. "— Liberal senator Sharon Carstairs, 1996.

3. "Canada will be one of the first unarmed countries in the world."— Liberal foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy, 1998.

4. "Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda." — Liberal foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy at a gun control conference, Oslo, Norway, 1998.

Edited by Derek L, 06 February 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[Shakeyhands]

But that has been one of the tent poles in favour of the LGR………But it stands to reason, those that would harm the police, likely won’t register their firearms.

Your assume that all criminals are born that way or that a legal gun owner wouldn't commit a crime? That's a big assumption.

It’s about the principle namely for many………..If the Government deems us fit enough for a licence, that should be good enough……..And yes, many also have varying degrees of concern, not of Russians, but our own Government confiscating our firearms……..They’ve clearly demonstrated that ability….They can’t take what they don’t know exists.

Well that would be you becoming a criminal, wouldn't it?

I think the position of many is that since the LGR is useless in helping law enforcement “stay safe from criminals”, what is it’s real purpose?

I don't see it that way at all, they've said it was a useful tool and I even laid out a couple reasons why it was a good idea too.

For the record, I too don’t fear Russians, but I certainly do fear ignorant politicians, Crown prosecutors (Did you hear the once from the recent defence trial stating the defendant’s .38 revolver ejected spent casings?) and Zombies………Blood-----sucking------Zombies.

Ok.

To add these gems, posted in an earlier thread:


"I came to Ottawa ... with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers." — Liberal minister of justice Allan Rock, 1994.

Retired.

2. "C-68 has little to do with gun control or crime control, but it is the first step necessary to begin the social re-engineering of Canada. "— Liberal senator Sharon Carstairs, 1996.

Retired.

3. "Canada will be one of the first unarmed countries in the world."— Liberal foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy, 1998.

Retired.

4. "Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda." — Liberal foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy at a gun control conference, Oslo, Norway, 1998.[/b]

Still retired.

Edited by Shakeyhands, 07 February 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[Derek L]

Your assume that all criminals are born that way or that a legal gun owner wouldn't commit a crime? That's a big assumption.

You’re correct, I don’t assume guilt…kind of a Charter thing.

Well that would be you becoming a criminal, wouldn't it?

I suppose, But if Government passed a law ordering the extermination of red heads, I’d likely oppose that too.

I don't see it that way at all, they've said it was a useful tool and I even laid out a couple reasons why it was a good idea too.

I’m sure permanent wire taps and mandatory drug testing would also be useful.



As for the Liberal member quotes, that clearly demonstrated their position and reason for the LGR……Hence many gun owners opposition……Private Gun ownership makes it a little harder for a government to implement social engineering experiments that the populace might one day oppose.

[Shakeyhands]

I suppose, But if Government passed a law ordering the extermination of red heads, I’d likely oppose that too.

ok, I now know we're never going to agree on anything..........


unless that's a loose "likely"?