26 replies to this topic

[jbg]

Nigerian Muslims showed off their version of what Christmas peace means. With Christians massed for worship, they were easy targets for a massacre. Those perpetrating the atrocity specialize in attacks on helpless people, much as was the case with the Biblical Amelkites (not Muslims, but the source of the culture), and as more recently demonstrated on September 11, 2001 in New York City and Washington, March 11, 2004 on trains in Spain, and July 11, 2005 on London subways. Excerpts of news article below.

Nigeria's Christmas Present: Blown Up Christians (link to article, excerpts below)

Several churches in northern Nigeria were bombed December 25, in what has been described as "Nigeria's blackest Christmas ever." The attacks, perpetrated by the Muslim militant group Boko Haram, killed at least 39 people, "the majority dying on the steps of a Catholic church [in Madalla near the capital of Abuja] after celebrating Christmas Mass as blood pooled in dust from a massive explosion." Charred bodies and dismembered limbs lay scattered around the destroyed church.

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In short, Boko Haram's actions have been anything but "senseless": its terror campaign has seen Christians reduced in number—whether by killing them off or tormenting them into fleeing their villages—and has seen hundreds of churches eliminated. These results correspond quite well with Boko Haram's own stated goals of creating an anti-infidel Sharia state.

This is not local in nature. Nor is the continual harassment of Israel or the Western world. This is death for the sake of death, and of domination and control. To paraphrase Neil Young, "got to get down to it, murderers are cutting us down, should have been done long ago".

Edited by jbg, 30 December 2011 - 09:04 PM.

[American Woman]

Nigerian Muslims showed off their version of what Christmas peace means.

The "Nigerian Muslims" you speak of are members of the militant Islamist sect Boko Haram. I think it's important to make that distinction.

[jbg]

The "Nigerian Muslims" you speak of are members of the militant Islamist sect Boko Haram. I think it's important to make that distinction.

Is the Boko Haram sect marginalized by other Muslims?

[American Woman]

Is the Boko Haram sect marginalized by other Muslims?

Perhaps by other militant Muslim organizations, but not by "Nigerian Muslims."

Nigeria's top Muslim spiritual leader, Sa'ad Abubakar, [...] condemned the attacks.

"I want to assure all Nigerians that there is no conflict between Muslims and Christians, or between Islam and Christianity," Abubakar said. "There is a conflict between evil people and good people."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/T.../#ixzz1i5Je4u7n

[dre]

The "Nigerian Muslims" you speak of are members of the militant Islamist sect Boko Haram. I think it's important to make that distinction.

Geez A-dub... Youre going to ruin a perfectly good ethnocentric rant.

[American Woman]

It's a terrible situation in Nigeria, but Boko Haram targets Muslims, too. The group wants strict Sharia Law in Nigeria, and until recently "targets used to be limited to Christian and Muslim religious leaders, politicians, policemen, and government forces – mostly via hit-and-run assassinations from the back of motorcycles, according to AP. But at least 504 people, many of them civilians, have been killed this year alone as Boko Haram's campaign became more sophisticated and substantial."

Now we have this drive-by bombing of a school, where thankfully no one was killed. No one has claimed responsibility, but the fear is that it was a "retaliation attack."

Unclaimed attack on Islamic school raises tension in Nigeria

The leader of the Christian Association of Nigeria, which represents the country's churches, said the Christmas Day attacks on churches that killed more than 40 people amounted to a "declaration of war" on Nigeria's Christians and that while he did not want to encourage violence, "Christians should protect themselves ... in any way they can" because the government was not doing so, the BBC reports.

“The Christian community has found the responses of the Supreme Council for Islamic affairs and other Islamic bodies on this matter to be unacceptable and abdication of their responsibilities over their extremist members. It is on record that most religious, traditional and political leaders in the North have not come out openly to condemn the extremist activities of Boko Haram, we hold them responsible for what is happening, because they have not taken concrete steps to check the excesses of their members.

As for the attack on the school, the fear is that it will give Boko Haram the excuse to up their attacks, so it's good that Muhammad Sa'ad Abubakar has spoken out condemning the attacks. But then, as I said, the attacks seem to be aimed against Muslim clerics/leaders, too.

[jbg]

Geez A-dub... Youre going to ruin a perfectly good ethnocentric rant.

These fine distinctions are part of a pattern of denial of the obvious. Large portions of Islam (not all) are at war with us.

[Wild Bill]

These fine distinctions are part of a pattern of denial of the obvious. Large portions of Islam (not all) are at war with us.

Good point, jbg. I've noticed that many folks try to be fair but miss the distinction between a qualitative point and a quantitative one.

Yes, it's true that there are many Muslims who are civilized. The point is, how many? What percentage? It's not enough to point out that there are SOME!

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, SOME Germans did not support Hitler but their numbers were so small and/or ineffective as to be irrelevant.

Are the numbers of Muslims who stand up against the militants significant? Are their actions in rooting out dangerous and violent Islamists in their community significant and effective?

[jbg]

Good point, jbg. I've noticed that many folks try to be fair but miss the distinction between a qualitative point and a quantitative one.

Yes, it's true that there are many Muslims who are civilized. The point is, how many? What percentage? It's not enough to point out that there are SOME!

The point is many want to duck the issue for any number of reasons. One assumes the good faith of the "duckers" which is that they don't want to perceive themselves or be perceived as bigots. That is fair. The problem is that it is impossible to tuss out the many violent members of the community from the many peaceful members. Maybe if the Muslim community, overall, were more inconvenienced by security measures they'd ostracize and isolate their "bad eggs", and help the police. That would go a long way towards solving the problem.

The second reason is darker. Some of these people don't appreciate that freedom isn't free and must be fought for. They're used to the dividend of relative peace lavished upon the U.S. and Canada by the fighting generals of WW II and the Korean War, and don't want to sacrifice anything, whether by taxes, conscription or otherwise.

Are the numbers of Muslims who stand up against the militants significant? Are their actions in rooting out dangerous and violent Islamists in their community significant and effective?

Clearly not.

[American Woman]

Here's the point, and it's an important one:

Boko Haram regards the Nigerian state as being run by non-believers, even when the country had a Muslim president.

Since the Muslim president wasn't running the country according to their ideals, the Muslim president was not viewed any more favorably than a Christian president.

Boko Haram's trademark has been the use of gunmen on motorbikes, killing police, politicians and anyone who criticises it, including clerics from other Muslim traditions and a Christian preacher.

It's not "Muslims," but militant Muslims. I'm wondering - What can Muslims do that they are not doing to prevent this type of militant idealism? The reality seems to be that they are not any happier with Muslims who don't share their values than they are with "the west."

Who are Nigeria's Boko Haram Islamists?

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Any thoughts about the attack on the Muslim school? That was specifically targeting children.

Edited by American Woman, 31 December 2011 - 01:37 PM.

[jbg]

It's not "Muslims," but militant Muslims. I'm wondering - What can Muslims do that they are not doing to prevent this type of militant idealism? The reality seems to be that they are not any happier with Muslims who don't share their values than they are with "the west."

Treat them the way Baruch Goldstein was treated in Israel.

[American Woman]

Treat them the way Baruch Goldstein was treated in Israel.

They did. From my link:

....the charismatic Muslim cleric, Mohammed Yusuf, formed Boko Haram in Maiduguri in 2002. He set up a religious complex, which included a mosque and an Islamic school.

In 2009, Boko Haram carried out a spate of attacks on police stations and other government buildings in Maiduguri. This led to shoot-outs on Maiduguri's streets. Hundreds of Boko Haram supporters were killed and thousands of residents fled the city.

Nigeria's security forces eventually seized the group's headquarters, capturing its fighters and killing Mr Yusuf. His body was shown on state television

It's not as if nothing is ever done. They re-grouped under a new leader in 2010....

[cybercoma]

I have to avoid this thread because agreeing with American Woman makes me feel dizzy.

[eyeball]

I have to avoid this thread because agreeing with American Woman makes me feel dizzy.

I thought it was just the New Year's cheer kicking in. Here's to getting even dizzier.

...hic...I think I love you AW.

[jbg]

They did. From my link:

....the charismatic Muslim cleric, Mohammed Yusuf, formed Boko Haram in Maiduguri in 2002. He set up a religious complex, which included a mosque and an Islamic school.

In 2009, Boko Haram carried out a spate of attacks on police stations and other government buildings in Maiduguri. This led to shoot-outs on Maiduguri's streets. Hundreds of Boko Haram supporters were killed and thousands of residents fled the city.

Nigeria's security forces eventually seized the group's headquarters, capturing its fighters and killing Mr Yusuf. His body was shown on state television

It's not as if nothing is ever done. They re-grouped under a new leader in 2010....

You're making a good point.

However, in no way is Boko Haram as marginalized among Muslims as the Haradim (sp) are marginalized among Jews. I'll admit that they're political power, though, is too great and needs to be reduced or eliminated. But they rarely resort to violence, mostly to leeching off productive Israelis and their wives.

Baruch Goldstein was a rare case. The Muslim atrocities, sadly, are not.