Jump to content
Political Forums
Black Dog

NHL ticket revenue

Recommended Posts

Black Dog    1

Canadian teams drive league revenues

A secret National Hockey League report detailing the ticket revenues of its 30 teams provides additional ammunition for those suggesting more struggling U.S.-based teams should be relocated to Canada.

The confidential document shows that the six Canadian NHL clubs last season accounted for about 33 per cent of the $1.2 billion (U.S.) in league ticket revenue. In 2007-08, Canada's six teams represented 31 per cent.

The report, which was obtained by the Star from several league sources, suggests operating a club north of the border is much more lucrative for the NHL. Five of the top six-revenue generating clubs are based in Canada, with the New York Rangers being the lone team from the U.S. in that group.

Tyler Dellow, a Toronto lawyer and hockey blogger, takes a look at these numbers.

I’ve written before about the astonishing amount of money that flows out of Canada and to the United States to fund NHL hockey there. National TV deals are shared and Canada – with only seven teams – generates far more revenue per team or per capita than does the US. I would suspect that Canadians buy a grossly disproportionate amount of NHL memorabilia – all of this money is shared equally amongst the thirty teams. It’s likely that at least five of the Canadian teams are paying revenue sharing. Going by memory, James Mirtle estimated that the Winnipeg Jets would hit $50MM in annual ticket revenue, which would probably put them into revenue sharing payment territory or very close to it – it would have put them seventh on last year’s revenue list. I think you can probably conservatively say that there’s at least $200MM flowing out of Canada annually to fund hockey in places that don’t care about it the way that we do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
waldo    2

Steven Harper... self-styled Canadian hockey expert: “Bettman has done a great job re-branding the game.” :lol:

a few years back, I was taken to a Coyotes game and was amazed at how empty the arena was... even more taken back at how little the 'fans' actually knew of the game. Bettman <> a-hole!

Edited by waldo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shady    157

Anyone that knows anything realizes that the long term growth of the NHL is going to be linked to its participation in America. I'm all for adding a few more teams in Canada, but there's a ceiling here. There just isn't the population. The real potential is in American NHL growth. If you withdraw teams from south of the border, all you're going to do is relegate hockey as a niche sport, instead of one of the 4 major North American sports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sharkman    87

Steven Harper... self-styled Canadian hockey expert: Bettman has done a great job re-branding the game. :lol:

a few years back, I was taken to a Coyotes game and was amazed at how empty the arena was... even more taken back at how little the 'fans' actually knew of the game. Bettman <> a-hole!

I have little use for Bettman, that smarmy little lawyer with the big Napolean Complex. He kept expansion out of Canada for far too long and some of his decisions have been nothing but petty one-upmanship. Someone should do a serious study on the reffing, because it really appears that they are directed to keep games close when they can by calling extra penalties, so Bettman can claim there is league parity. Also, the losing team usually gets a powerplay late in the game whether there's an infraction or not. There is little consistancy in the reffing.

Edited by sharkman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sharkman    87

Anyone that knows anything realizes that the long term growth of the NHL is going to be linked to its participation in America. I'm all for adding a few more teams in Canada, but there's a ceiling here. There just isn't the population. The real potential is in American NHL growth. If you withdraw teams from south of the border, all you're going to do is relegate hockey as a niche sport, instead of one of the 4 major North American sports.

I hear you, but I feel that hockey will never become a mainstream sport in the US. It would have by now, it's been, what, 60, 70 years? Even since just the 70's it's had every opportunity to become mainstream.

They should have started a European league with a North American/European Championship instead of trying to force feed hockey to Bubba and Hoss. Many of the US teams are barely eaking by or losing money, and there is just no growth available there IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The_Squid    37

No more expansion. The league is a watered-down shadow of what it could be. I think retraction in the USA would do the game a lot of good.

I don't really care about the money flowing to the shitty USA teams, other than the fact that some of them should not exist at all. The entire league agreed upon a formula of revenue sharing and the rich teams have to live with that. If the Cdn dollar goes back to 60 cents it may be the Cdn teams that benefit from revenue sharing.

Saskatchewan and the maritimes could not support an NHL team. Winnipeg is going to be on a shoestring... They have the least population (~700,000) of any NHL city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
guyser    0

Winnipeg is going to be on a shoestring... They have the least population (~700,000) of any NHL city.

FYI....ever been in Buffalo ? Winnipeg is 2.5 times the size of Buffalo ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The_Squid    37

Check your math.

As of 2006, Erie and Niagara Counties had a combined estimated population of 1,154,378. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo,_ny

As of the 2006 Census, there were 633,451 inhabitants in Winnipeg itself, 694,668 inhabitants in the Winnipeg Census Metropolitan Area (CMA), and 711,455 in the Winnipeg Capital Region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg

Sports teams draw from larger areas than just downtowns.

1.2 million > 700,000

Buffalo also draws nearby Canadian fans from accross the border.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Bill    0

I did. Buffalo is small, and do we really want to just enlarge the area to fill some purpose?

Buffalo itself has a population of 261,310 (2010 Census) ,<----from your link.

http://ottawasportsguy.blogspot.com/2006/10/nhl-cities-population.html

Guyser, maybe from the west coast it looks like that but not here! Your comparison is like looking at only the population of old Toronto, ignoring the other couple of million in the surrounding GTA.

Buffalo likely draws 80% of its seats from fans within 40 miles, a figure far higher than you stated! Add in regular fans and buses from Toronto, Hamilton and Niagara Region and they have a much bigger audience than Winnipeg.

However, Winnipeg likely has a higher percentage of dedicated fans, which would equal things out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The_Squid    37

I did. Buffalo is small, and do we really want to just enlarge the area to fill some purpose?

Buffalo itself has a population of 261,310 (2010 Census) ,<----from your link.

http://ottawasportsguy.blogspot.com/2006/10/nhl-cities-population.html

Now you are being purposely obtuse to try and prove your point.

Teams draw fans from a distance, not just the city centre. 1.2 million versus 700,000

However, Winnipeg probably has more hockey fans in that smaller population. Like, WB stated, it probably evens out somehow, or maybe Winnipeg is actually a "bigger market" if you look at just hockey fans. Hard to say without having data....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No more expansion. The league is a watered-down shadow of what it could be. I think retraction in the USA would do the game a lot of good....

Ummmm...OK...can we get rid of the "shitty" Canadian teams too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The_Squid    37

Ummmm...OK...can we get rid of the "shitty" Canadian teams too?

Nope.

The American expansion in to the sun-belt is what has hurt the game. Get rid of those teams and the game will improve considerably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope.

The American expansion in to the sun-belt is what has hurt the game. Get rid of those teams and the game will improve considerably.

I don't think so....some Canadian teams suck just as bad...with and without genuine Canadians on the team. When was the last time that a Canadian team won The Cup? LOL! (low blow...better report me!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Dog    1

Anyone that knows anything realizes that the long term growth of the NHL is going to be linked to its participation in America. I'm all for adding a few more teams in Canada, but there's a ceiling here. There just isn't the population. The real potential is in American NHL growth. If you withdraw teams from south of the border, all you're going to do is relegate hockey as a niche sport, instead of one of the 4 major North American sports.

Hockey is a niche sport and will remain that way. The U.S. market in terms of hockey interest is pretty much tapped out as it is. All else being equal, the league would be better off long-term by trying to satisfy the insatiable Canadian appetite for the game, rather than hoping to create a market where none exists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Dog    1

I don't think so....some Canadian teams suck just as bad...with and without genuine Canadians on the team. When was the last time that a Canadian team won The Cup? LOL! (low blow...better report me!)

A Canadian team won the cup last year. 14 of 19 regular players on the Boston Bruins were from Canada.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to help you out, the discussion is about revenue.

Just to help you out...we already discussed this last year. The American markets still provide the bulk of NHL revenue and has a much larger potential market (gate & cable television). Ottawa's revenue is not much better than many other "shitty" teams.

http://threehundredeight.blogspot.com/2010/06/nhl-gate-revenues.html

Edited by bush_cheney2004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Dog    1

Just to help you out...we already discussed this last year. The American markets still provide the bulk of NHL revenue and has a much larger potential market (gate & cable television).

20 per cent of the league accounts for 33 per cent of the revenue. Problem?

Also: the growth potential of the U.S. means nothing if you can't realize it.

Ottawa's revenue is not much better than many other "shitty" teams.

http://threehundredeight.blogspot.com/2010/06/nhl-gate-revenues.html

So revenues around double that of the struggling sun belt franchises is "not much better"? :lol:

Of course that's not accounting for the money Canadian franchises generate from sponsorship and merch sales (much of which goes into the league's coffers to prop up the U.S. teams in...um.."growing" markets.)

Edited by Black Dog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shady    157

If you retreat from American markets, all you do is make the NHL the Canadian version of the Swedish elite league, or the Russian KHL. It makes no long term sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 per cent of the league accounts for 33 per cent of the revenue. Problem?

Also: the growth potential of the U.S. means nothing if you can't realize it.

It's a lot better than never being able realize such growth in Canada. Clearly revenue has increased because of American expansion, not Canadian legend.

So revenues around double that of the struggling sun belt franchises is "not much better"? :lol:

Not for Ottawa...which is just very average.

Of course that's not accounting for the money Canadian franchises generate from sponsorship and merch sales (much of which goes into the league's coffers to prop up the U.S. teams in...um.."growing" markets.)

Yea, nobody in the USA ever buys NHL merchandise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Dog    1

If you retreat from American markets, all you do is make the NHL the Canadian version of the Swedish elite league, or the Russian KHL. It makes no long term sense.

Relocating failing franchises in places like Phoenix or Carolina is hardly withdrawing from the American market. Maintaining unprofitable teams in places where the game will never be more than a novelty and requiring successful teams to prop them up through revenue sharing is hardly good business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Dog    1

It's a lot better than never being able realize such growth in Canada.

Uh. No. It's not. Either way, you're not growing.

Clearly revenue has increased because of American expansion, not Canadian legend.

Prove it.

Not for Ottawa...which is just very average.

Uh. No. Ottawa is slightly above league average. Which, given teh size of the market in question, kinda supports my point over yours.

Yea, nobody in the USA ever buys NHL merchandise.

Who said they did not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×