Boges

So are the McGuinty Liberals mean-spirited Neo Cons?

35 posts in this topic

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/adam-radwanski/austerity-czar-wants-ontario-to-curb-health-education-spending/article2291969/

A government-commissioned review of Ontario’s public services is set to deliver a grim diagnosis of the province’s financial prospects, and propose a sweeping overhaul of the way it spends money.

At the heart of the new spending model would be a much tighter clampdown on health costs than Dalton McGuinty’s government has previously forecast. And among the roughly 400 recommendations for spending reforms are changes to some of the Premier’s signature education policies, including a shift away from mandated smaller classes.

The commission, headed by former bank economist Don Drummond, was appointed last spring to help find ways to accelerate the return to a balanced budget. But in an interview on Wednesday, Mr. Drummond made clear that it will be a struggle just to achieve the current target date of 2017-18, and acknowledged that implementing recommendations of the commission would require a significant degree of pain.

“If there’s a way of doing it without that, I haven’t been smart enough to find it,” Mr. Drummond said. “There’s pain in every single chapter.”

Mr. Drummond said the government has given the commission “almost shockingly” free rein, making no attempt to censor it. Nevertheless, the coming report – expected to be released within the next month – will present Mr. McGuinty’s Liberals with a major dilemma.

The Premier and his Finance Minister, Dwight Duncan, have held off on announcing any cost-cutting measures of their own, pending the commission’s findings. The report recently took on additional importance, with the threat of a credit downgrade by Moody’s Investors Services. But while Mr. Duncan conceded in a recent interview that he, too, expects some pain, insiders suggest that the Liberals did not initially anticipate how controversial Mr. Drummond’s recommendations would be.

Sounds a lot like that KPMG report that the Ford administration had done last year that everyone thought was horrific.

In the Star article is speculated that some Ministries could see cuts of up to 30%. Not even Harper or Ford has proposed cuts that deep.

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Flaherty's cuts to provincial transfers and the exuberant salaries of CEOs in the med profession are forcing their hand on healthcare.

These are meaty, legitimate cuts that they'll have to make as opposed to shutting down a zoo or library.

Edited by mentalfloss

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So are the McGuinty Liberals mean-spirited Neo Cons?
No, they're just incompetent.

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Flaherty's cuts to provincial transfers and the exuberant salaries of CEOs in the med profession are forcing their hand on healthcare.

These are meaty, legitimate cuts that they'll have to make as opposed to shutting down a zoo or library.

So the Provinces budget problems are the Feds fault. Well then Ford can blame McGuinty for Toronto's problems.

Name some legit cuts in your minds. I haven't heard any credit reports that CEO salaries are going to be cut.

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http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1110992--cuts-coming-and-everyone-must-do-their-part-warns-dalton-mcguinty?bn=1

WATERLOO—Doctors, professors, teachers, and others on the public payroll will have do their bit in the new age of austerity, warns Premier Dalton McGuinty.

“We’re all going to have a role to play,” the premier told reporters here in his first public event of the New Year.

“If we’re going to be as effective as we need to be in terms of strengthening this economy and ensuring that we’re getting ever more value for the public dollars that are being invested in our public institutions, whether that’s education at whatever level or health care ... then we’re all going to bring something to the table,” he said.

Against the backdrop of cuts czar Don Drummond’s new report that will urge sweeping reforms to eliminate the $16 billion deficit, that suggests public servants will have to be more efficient.

Had Rob Ford said this people would be freaking out on him.

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Had Rob Ford said this people would be freaking out on him.

Are you comparing Rob Ford to Drummond or McGuinty?

We have no idea exactly what and how things will be cut until the report comes out so hold on to your booties.

And Rob Ford's cuts are stupid considering what he's cutting, how little he's getting for it, and that the city is in a surplus.

Edited by mentalfloss

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.

Edited by MiddleClassCentrist

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When the close to centre government tells you that cuts need to happen, people listen.

Why? Because the Conservatives are always doom and gloom spending cuts, tax cuts regardless of the weather. If Tim Hudak said it, he'd be like broken record.

Now if Andrea Horvath said it, severe panic would break out.

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When the close to centre government tells you that cuts need to happen, people listen.

Why? Because the Conservatives are always doom and gloom spending cuts, tax cuts regardless of the weather. If Tim Hudak said it, he'd be like broken record.

Now if Andrea Horvath said it, severe panic would break out.

Oh I get it. When Conservatives want to cut they're mean-spirited but when Liberals do it, they're pragmatic. :rolleyes:

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Oh I get it. When Conservatives want to cut they're mean-spirited but when Liberals do it, they're pragmatic. :rolleyes:

Irrational cutting of program to fund tax cuts and irrational programs on their agenda is the conservative mantra. Of course they seem mean spirited. If they were running a surplus, they'd cut taxes so in the next down turn they'd HAVE to cut extra program funds to continue funding their special agenda (*cough*, Harper, *cough*).

Rob Ford is another prime example, create a budget hole by cutting taxes, fill it with social programs... especially programs that help poor people.

Dalton is the reverse... Spend irrationally in good times, continue into bad times... eventually come to the realization that the "hey day" is over. Cut programs like crazy.

I hope you can see the difference. I want to make it clear, neither are good.

Edited by MiddleClassCentrist

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Dalton is the reverse... Spend irrationally in good times, continue into bad times... eventually come to the realization that the "hey day" is over. Cut programs like crazy.

See, this relates to what I was trying to get at on the other thread. I actually don't think that Rae was this irresponsible. His stimulus spending came during a major recession, they didn't cause ON's credit rating to drop, and when things started to brighten a little, his efforts at cuts were more modest and, frankly, fair imo.

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Why Drummond’s doomsday report is not all bad for the Premier

To understand why that is, it helps to bear in mind that – from the perspective of Mr. McGuinty and his Finance Minister, Dwight Duncan – Mr. Drummond’s commission on public-service reform is increasingly being viewed as an exercise in table-setting.

The government might have hoped, when it struck the commission last spring, that all the answers to get out of deficit would be provided. But while it still might find considerable value in many of the report’s roughly 400 recommendations, the report is unlikely to be the blueprint for the next provincial budget. Instead, the Liberals are clearly hoping that Mr. Drummond’s doom-and-gloom will provide political cover for their own, somewhat milder austerity plan.

The Liberals probably won’t commit to getting annual spending increases in health care below 3 per cent, as Mr. Drummond has proposed; they certainly won’t scrap their own signature education policies. If they reject Mr. Drummond’s unusually pessimistic forecast of 2-per-cent economic growth in perpetuity, and bring in some additional revenues by cancelling planned corporate tax cuts, they should generally be able to promise fewer cutbacks than the ones Mr. Drummond will call for.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/adam-radwanski/why-drummonds-doomsday-report-is-not-all-bad-for-the-premier/article2293265/

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Yes, Ford's been in power for a year and a bit and Mcguinty has been in Power since 2003.

And?

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Oh I get it. When Conservatives want to cut they're mean-spirited but when Liberals do it, they're pragmatic. :rolleyes:

Who said they were mean-spirited, depend were the cutting are, most rather have cuts then pay higher taxes.

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Who said they were mean-spirited, depend were the cutting are, most rather have cuts then pay higher taxes.

I would agree. But others would call that mean-spirited.

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cancelling planned corporate tax cuts
Good place to start.

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If they reject Mr. Drummond’s unusually pessimistic forecast of 2-per-cent economic growth in perpetuity, and bring in some additional revenues by cancelling planned corporate tax cuts, they should generally be able to promise fewer cutbacks than the ones Mr. Drummond will call for.

If they just increase the growth forecast while impeding growth than everything's just peachy!!! :lol:

Edited by CPCFTW

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If they just increase the growth forecast while impeding growth than everything's just peachy!!! :lol:

You know the US has a higher corporate tax rate than us, right? Or are you just being purposefully obtuse as usual?

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You know the US has a higher corporate tax rate than us, right? Or are you just being purposefully obtuse as usual?

Wtf does that have to do what I said? Oh right. I forgot the US and Canada are the only developed countries in hippy economics 101 class. And of course corporate taxes should be looked at in a vaccuum without consideration of any other costs/benefits!

Edited by CPCFTW

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We now have a window as to how the McGuinty Liberals plan to address Ontario's deficit problem.

Stepping up his warnings of imminent spending cuts, McGuinty on Tuesday reminded Ontarians he has built up years of goodwill with public servants, which should ease the pain by averting labour strife.

“The foundation of respect and collaboration and measureable progress that we have laid during the first eight years puts me in a good position,” the premier said, referring to the generous contract settlements since his Liberals took power in 2003.

“So when I go to my teachers and I go to my doctors and I go to my nurses and everybody else in the public sector and I say: ‘Listen folks, we need to do this’ . . . I’m hoping that they’ll receive that with an open mind.”

http://www.thestar.com/article/1120501--mcguinty-says-history-of-goodwill-with-public-servants-will-ease-pain-of-cuts

Gosh, I can't wait to hear the NDP's Horwath response to this. If McGuinty thinks that because he bought peace with the unions they will now play nice as a favour to him, he's more of an idiot than I thought.

Since coming to office, the McGuinty Liberals have hiked spending more than 66%, presiding over generous pay raises for public-sector workers, as well as a rash of both bolstered and new programs.

Ontario is now struggling with a $16-billion deficit and pays roughly $10 billion annually in interest on its debt.

The province therefore, turned to Drummond for advice.

The former federal public servant and TD Bank chief economist has telegraphed several major recommendations. He is expected to say gambling should be moved to more central locations, alcohol prices should be hiked and cash registers should be rejigged to prevent tax theft. Drummond also is recommending consolidating some ministries and overhauling others.

Drummond is tackling health care as well because it consumes about 70% of the provincial budget. Not much has trickled out but Drummond is said to believe certain medical procedures are unnecessary, including arthroscopic knee surgery (which often simply delays knee replacement by one year), while others, like caesarean sections, are performed too often.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/24/ontario-will-address-public-service-salaries-to-help-balance-budget-dalton-mcguinty/

That's a lot to mull over. I wonder how many medical procedures will be de-listed this time from our public health care coverage? So far, increasing the health care tax hasn't been mentioned but I fear that may be just around the corner.

It would have been nice for McGuinty to consult ordinary Ontarians for cost cutting ideas in advance of a budget. Instead he decided Drummond was the one who would find all the answers. I hope Drummond's other ideas are not as depressing as this.

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No, they're just incompetent.

"Zactly! It's sickening, the worst Ontario government ever.. :rolleyes: well maybe after Raes'.

The worst leader ever even counting Rae. The guy's a disaster and we're the suckers paying the piper.

The wasted $ moving, canceling energy generating plants,funding costly green energy sources that are cost prohibitive and not working, putting high paid teachers in charge of new programs for kindergarten kids, eHealth fiasco, ORNGE costs and deaths,Caledonia surrender, illegal Tobacco trafficking, where will it stop. Billions wasted!

(Add more at your discression)

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/653392

That was a super-sized helping of humble pie Premier Dalton McGuinty choked down this week over the eHealth Ontario spending fiasco.

Taxpayers have "good reason to be upset," he said, and the buck stops with him. He's right, of course. But the premier is probably culpable in a deeper way than he actually acknowledged.

In fact, there's a cautionary tale in the eHealth story for McGuinty about his recent fetish for government moving at the speed of business.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/19/ornge-deaths-probe_n_1216755.html

THe ORNGE PROBE

"Matthews cleaned house at the agency last week after months of controversy surrounding its questionable business practices, posh headquarters and high executive salaries.

She replaced CEO Chris Mazza — who was paid $1.4 million a year — and the entire board of directors.

The government hasn't said how much severance it will have to pay Mazza, who went on indefinite medical leave days after his salary was made public."

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Health Minister Deb Matthews now says there are no plans to limit OHIP coverage of procedures such as planned caesarean sections.

“I want to make this very clear: we are not delisting caesarean sections,” Matthews told reporters Thursday at the opening of a new family health team in Toronto’s Liberty Village.

Her comments came one day after she suggested that reducing the number of such births would be a way to save money as the province struggles to pay down a $16-billion deficit.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1121789--deb-matthews-backs-down-on-reducing-c-sections-to-save-money?bn=1

New instructions to Don Drummond: concentrate on gender neutral services to de-list from our universal health coverage. I guess that means sex change operations will continue to be funded by OHIP.

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