Jump to content


Photo

So are the McGuinty Liberals mean-spirited Neo Cons?


34 replies to this topic

#1 Boges

Boges

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,362 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:14 AM

http://www.theglobea...article2291969/

A government-commissioned review of Ontario’s public services is set to deliver a grim diagnosis of the province’s financial prospects, and propose a sweeping overhaul of the way it spends money.

At the heart of the new spending model would be a much tighter clampdown on health costs than Dalton McGuinty’s government has previously forecast. And among the roughly 400 recommendations for spending reforms are changes to some of the Premier’s signature education policies, including a shift away from mandated smaller classes.

The commission, headed by former bank economist Don Drummond, was appointed last spring to help find ways to accelerate the return to a balanced budget. But in an interview on Wednesday, Mr. Drummond made clear that it will be a struggle just to achieve the current target date of 2017-18, and acknowledged that implementing recommendations of the commission would require a significant degree of pain.

“If there’s a way of doing it without that, I haven’t been smart enough to find it,” Mr. Drummond said. “There’s pain in every single chapter.”

Mr. Drummond said the government has given the commission “almost shockingly” free rein, making no attempt to censor it. Nevertheless, the coming report – expected to be released within the next month – will present Mr. McGuinty’s Liberals with a major dilemma.

The Premier and his Finance Minister, Dwight Duncan, have held off on announcing any cost-cutting measures of their own, pending the commission’s findings. The report recently took on additional importance, with the threat of a credit downgrade by Moody’s Investors Services. But while Mr. Duncan conceded in a recent interview that he, too, expects some pain, insiders suggest that the Liberals did not initially anticipate how controversial Mr. Drummond’s recommendations would be.


Sounds a lot like that KPMG report that the Ford administration had done last year that everyone thought was horrific.

In the Star article is speculated that some Ministries could see cuts of up to 30%. Not even Harper or Ford has proposed cuts that deep.

#2 mentalfloss

mentalfloss

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 583 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:30 AM

Flaherty's cuts to provincial transfers and the exuberant salaries of CEOs in the med profession are forcing their hand on healthcare.

These are meaty, legitimate cuts that they'll have to make as opposed to shutting down a zoo or library.

Edited by mentalfloss, 05 January 2012 - 09:31 AM.


#3 Rick

Rick

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:33 AM

So are the McGuinty Liberals mean-spirited Neo Cons?

No, they're just incompetent.
“This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country.

Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011

#4 Boges

Boges

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,362 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:04 AM

Flaherty's cuts to provincial transfers and the exuberant salaries of CEOs in the med profession are forcing their hand on healthcare.

These are meaty, legitimate cuts that they'll have to make as opposed to shutting down a zoo or library.


So the Provinces budget problems are the Feds fault. Well then Ford can blame McGuinty for Toronto's problems.

Name some legit cuts in your minds. I haven't heard any credit reports that CEO salaries are going to be cut.

#5 Boges

Boges

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,362 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:39 AM

http://www.thestar.c...n-mcguinty?bn=1

WATERLOO—Doctors, professors, teachers, and others on the public payroll will have do their bit in the new age of austerity, warns Premier Dalton McGuinty.

“We’re all going to have a role to play,” the premier told reporters here in his first public event of the New Year.

“If we’re going to be as effective as we need to be in terms of strengthening this economy and ensuring that we’re getting ever more value for the public dollars that are being invested in our public institutions, whether that’s education at whatever level or health care ... then we’re all going to bring something to the table,” he said.

Against the backdrop of cuts czar Don Drummond’s new report that will urge sweeping reforms to eliminate the $16 billion deficit, that suggests public servants will have to be more efficient.


Had Rob Ford said this people would be freaking out on him.

#6 mentalfloss

mentalfloss

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 583 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:46 PM

Had Rob Ford said this people would be freaking out on him.


Are you comparing Rob Ford to Drummond or McGuinty?

We have no idea exactly what and how things will be cut until the report comes out so hold on to your booties.

And Rob Ford's cuts are stupid considering what he's cutting, how little he's getting for it, and that the city is in a surplus.

Edited by mentalfloss, 05 January 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#7 Black Dog

Black Dog

    Extremely critical of Hamas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,300 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:10 PM

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1110992--cuts-coming-and-everyone-must-do-their-part-warns-dalton-mcguinty?bn=1

Had Rob Ford said this people would be freaking out on him.


Is McGuinty responsible for the province's financial situation to the same extent as Ford is responsible for the city's budget hole?
America...."the world’s largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell

#8 Boges

Boges

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,362 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:27 PM

Is McGuinty responsible for the province's financial situation to the same extent as Ford is responsible for the city's budget hole?


Yes, Ford's been in power for a year and a bit and Mcguinty has been in Power since 2003.

#9 MiddleClassCentrist

MiddleClassCentrist

    Full Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,424 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario
  • Interests:Robotics, Gaming (RTS, TBS, RPG), Wood Working, Camping, Cycling

Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

.

Edited by MiddleClassCentrist, 25 February 2012 - 06:00 PM.

Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.


#10 MiddleClassCentrist

MiddleClassCentrist

    Full Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,424 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario
  • Interests:Robotics, Gaming (RTS, TBS, RPG), Wood Working, Camping, Cycling

Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:10 PM

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1110992--cuts-coming-and-everyone-must-do-their-part-warns-dalton-mcguinty?bn=1



Had Rob Ford said this people would be freaking out on him.


When the close to centre government tells you that cuts need to happen, people listen.

Why? Because the Conservatives are always doom and gloom spending cuts, tax cuts regardless of the weather. If Tim Hudak said it, he'd be like broken record.

Now if Andrea Horvath said it, severe panic would break out.

Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.


#11 Boges

Boges

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,362 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:48 PM

When the close to centre government tells you that cuts need to happen, people listen.

Why? Because the Conservatives are always doom and gloom spending cuts, tax cuts regardless of the weather. If Tim Hudak said it, he'd be like broken record.

Now if Andrea Horvath said it, severe panic would break out.


Oh I get it. When Conservatives want to cut they're mean-spirited but when Liberals do it, they're pragmatic. :rolleyes:

#12 MiddleClassCentrist

MiddleClassCentrist

    Full Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,424 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario
  • Interests:Robotics, Gaming (RTS, TBS, RPG), Wood Working, Camping, Cycling

Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:01 PM

Oh I get it. When Conservatives want to cut they're mean-spirited but when Liberals do it, they're pragmatic. :rolleyes:


Irrational cutting of program to fund tax cuts and irrational programs on their agenda is the conservative mantra. Of course they seem mean spirited. If they were running a surplus, they'd cut taxes so in the next down turn they'd HAVE to cut extra program funds to continue funding their special agenda (*cough*, Harper, *cough*).

Rob Ford is another prime example, create a budget hole by cutting taxes, fill it with social programs... especially programs that help poor people.

Dalton is the reverse... Spend irrationally in good times, continue into bad times... eventually come to the realization that the "hey day" is over. Cut programs like crazy.

I hope you can see the difference. I want to make it clear, neither are good.

Edited by MiddleClassCentrist, 05 January 2012 - 06:07 PM.

Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.


#13 Evening Star

Evening Star

    Full Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Regina SK

Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:40 PM

Dalton is the reverse... Spend irrationally in good times, continue into bad times... eventually come to the realization that the "hey day" is over. Cut programs like crazy.

See, this relates to what I was trying to get at on the other thread. I actually don't think that Rae was this irresponsible. His stimulus spending came during a major recession, they didn't cause ON's credit rating to drop, and when things started to brighten a little, his efforts at cuts were more modest and, frankly, fair imo.

#14 Newfoundlander

Newfoundlander

    Full Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,466 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

This would be neoliberal not neoconsevative.

#15 mentalfloss

mentalfloss

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 583 posts

Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:55 AM

Why Drummond’s doomsday report is not all bad for the Premier

To understand why that is, it helps to bear in mind that – from the perspective of Mr. McGuinty and his Finance Minister, Dwight Duncan – Mr. Drummond’s commission on public-service reform is increasingly being viewed as an exercise in table-setting.

The government might have hoped, when it struck the commission last spring, that all the answers to get out of deficit would be provided. But while it still might find considerable value in many of the report’s roughly 400 recommendations, the report is unlikely to be the blueprint for the next provincial budget. Instead, the Liberals are clearly hoping that Mr. Drummond’s doom-and-gloom will provide political cover for their own, somewhat milder austerity plan.

The Liberals probably won’t commit to getting annual spending increases in health care below 3 per cent, as Mr. Drummond has proposed; they certainly won’t scrap their own signature education policies. If they reject Mr. Drummond’s unusually pessimistic forecast of 2-per-cent economic growth in perpetuity, and bring in some additional revenues by cancelling planned corporate tax cuts, they should generally be able to promise fewer cutbacks than the ones Mr. Drummond will call for.

http://www.theglobea...article2293265/



Reply to this topic