176 replies to this topic

[Smallc]

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As for confidentiality - that is the proof of there being consequences to third party management.

Oh, I know. When I cited confidentiality related to business relationships with first nations, I was accused of everything from lying to bigotry.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

When people have nothing left to lose, it will be violent and justifiably so.

So let me get this straight, if somebody thinks they have nothing to lose they can then commit acts of violence, with cause but no responsibility?

Violence never was, and never will be, an acceptable solution to anything within the confines of this nation under law. Violence should be the reason to incarcerate citizens in the name of the nation. In fact, violence in the commission of an illegal act, should result in permanent removal from society to a northern latitude for the duration of their natural life. There can be no true hope unless society as a whole embraces an enlightened attitude toward governance. While it is never right to take a life, a zero tolerance for violence must be adhered to. The only available tool for society to punish an individual is the law of the land. Society should seek to stripe the rights of convicted felons and transport them less their property into a modern version of exile.

For those who actually take up arms against the nation, or its representatives, such an act will invoke the sanctioned use of deadly force under the pretext of national security by any designated member of any municipality, provincial or federal level of government. In my view, justice is the primary responsibility of any and all level(s) of government.

[guyser]

So let me get this straight, if somebody thinks they have nothing to lose they can then commit acts of violence, with cause but no responsibility?

Thats isnt what he said at all. He said when nothing left to lose, then people will resort to anything.

Violence never was, and never will be, an acceptable solution to anything within the confines of this nation under law. Violence should be the reason to incarcerate citizens in the name of the nation. In fact, violence in the commission of an illegal act, should result in permanent removal from society to a northern latitude for the duration of their natural life. There can be no true hope unless society as a whole embraces an enlightened attitude toward governance. While it is never right to take a life, a zero tolerance for violence must be adhered to. The only available tool for society to punish an individual is the law of the land. Society should seek to stripe the rights of convicted felons and transport them less their property into a modern version of exile.

For those who actually take up arms against the nation, or its representatives, such an act will invoke the sanctioned use of deadly force under the pretext of national security by any designated member of any municipality, provincial or federal level of government. In my view, justice is the primary responsibility of any and all level(s) of government.

Permanent removal from society? Someone beats up your spouse and you come over and beat the person doing it.....see ya later , as in much later in the afterlife?

Strip of rights? Thankfully we are born with rights that cannot be stripped, save for freedom of movement.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.saganash....r-assimilation/

This link is from Romeo Saganash's website.

"There were two visions for the Crown-First Nations relationship at the summit meeting yesterday in Ottawa: assimilation and reconciliation."

[cybercoma]

So let me get this straight, if somebody thinks they have nothing to lose they can then commit acts of violence, with cause but no responsibility?

Who said no responsibility? Obviously they will be breaking laws and will be arrested or worse.

[fellowtraveller]

With the exception of the recent case in Ontario, no one ever hears about a band who is in remediation.

Once again - how would you know when all you hear is what is in the media? Which is nothing.



Yes, it is a financial audit. Nevertheless, reports are filed with the government. They know what the money is being spent on - water infrastructure, sewer, health, etc... They can and do use that information.

Not very well, perhaps, but they do use it much more than people realize.

I already explained my personal involvement, but I will not detail business interests here.

Filing reports and acting are very far apart, or they are in DIAND. It is the natuire of bureaucrats and bureaucracies.

I must amend my statement about quality of mgmt. In reality, management of bands is wildly divergent, from atrocious to excellent. IMO the nontreaty bands overall are better run than First Nations on reserves, though there are many exception in both.

[Army Guy]

So you look at one portion of the federal budget alone and think it's comparable? The first nations have to cover everything with that money. Not just building new housing. They need to cover municipal, provincial, and federal expenditures... and not just housing.

Almost 8.5 bil is not enough , that is what you are impling. Do i think my example is complable yes i do, when we are talking about the spread of tax payers money...But your right thier budget is not just for housing, it covers everything, But is it not hard to convince Canadian taxpayers when there is a gross mismangement in that 8.5 bil...that there are chiefs making more than the PM , when one chief in NS is making well over a Million in salery and benifits TAX free...for looking after less than 400 people ...that over 80% of that funding is spent by these chiefs....on what is what we would like to know....Perhaps it is time that ALL special interest groups stop getting different treatment, draw one line in the sand and everybody is the same...

Just a note that 8.5 does not include any grants, land claim settlements, or special projects....some how we forgot about that cash

Edited by Army Guy, 25 January 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[charter.rights]

On Vancouver Island I know of one where it no doubt has led to a success.

In another case, the threat led to a change in leadership/management which led to success.

But I'm not going to discuss specific bands for confidentiality purposes.

So you don't really have any, right?

There is nothing successful that comes out of third party management. That is a fact.

[msj]

I already explained my personal involvement, but I will not detail business interests here.

Filing reports and acting are very far apart, or they are in DIAND. It is the natuire of bureaucrats and bureaucracies.

I must amend my statement about quality of mgmt. In reality, management of bands is wildly divergent, from atrocious to excellent. IMO the nontreaty bands overall are better run than First Nations on reserves, though there are many exception in both.

Yes, I think these are, generally, fair comments.

[msj]

So you don't really have any, right?

There is nothing successful that comes out of third party management. That is a fact.

It is not a fact - it is your opinion based on your own limited experiences.

My opinion, based on my own limited experiences, is that I have seen a band come out of third party management and become successful.

I know because I have audited them during third party management and subsequent to third party management.

Choose to disbelieve my experience all you want.

[Scotty]

That's a pretty racist thing to say. You think because a person is Aboriginal they're unemployed. Nice.

What I'm saying is that most municipal governments are supported by local ratepayers. Even if you don't own land in a city you still pay municipal taxes on your rented home or apartment, and you actually pay at a higher rate than homeowners. It doesn't seem to me that in all the discussions about local government and it's federal funding there's been any mention of any funding by the community itself.

[Scotty]

When people have nothing left to lose, it will be violent and justifiably so.

Nothing left to lose? Are you under the impression the poor natives are shuddering under the jackboot of brutal dictatorship?

Let them go to Brazil or Nigeria and watch the crowds of people living in tin shacks picking through garbage in desperate search of food and tell me they've got nothing to lose.

[cybercoma]

Just like we did with the Acadians or Black Loyalists, eh?

[guyser]

What I'm saying is that most municipal governments are supported by local ratepayers. Even if you don't own land in a city you still pay municipal taxes on your rented home or apartment, and you actually pay at a higher rate than homeowners. It doesn't seem to me that in all the discussions about local government and it's federal funding there's been any mention of any funding by the community itself.

Um....unsure what planet you live on but here on earth in Toronto , the rate for a homeowner vs the single family rented dwelling is exactly the same.

You pay the same as a condo dweller , rental house, homeowner living in the same taxation zone.

ETA, TO specific

Edited by guyser, 25 January 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[g_bambino]

Just like we did with the Acadians or Black Loyalists, eh?

Putting aside the fact Scotty said "let them go", not "push them off", what Acadian or Black Loyalist was sent away to live in a slum (in contemporary, not modern, terms) and pick through garbage? What Black Loyalist was ever forced out of the British colonies in the Canadas at all?
[ed.: sp.]

Edited by g_bambino, 25 January 2012 - 04:32 PM.