371 replies to this topic

[Smallc]

No one is talking about the CPP.

[WWWTT]

Adding to this, if it's too much for Canadians to take, the Conservatives will be brought down in the next election. I think by that time Canadians who are opposed will see the bigger picture and understand the advantages to such forward thinking.

Wow where was this rational thinking when the conservatives were cutting taxes for the largest corporations?Or when the conservatives announced increased spending in the military?How about the new laws creating financial burdens on our justice system?Increased funding for incarceration?etc,etc,etc?

Now all of a sudden the conservatives are fiscally responsible?

WWWTT

[Smallc]

Wow where was this rational thinking when the conservatives were cutting taxes for the largest corporations?

That companies would invest, and that corporate tax receipts would actually. Even in this climate, IIRC, they have.

Or when the conservatives announced increased spending in the military?

Most of us thought that it was necessary.

How about the new laws creating financial burdens on our justice system?Increased funding for incarceration?etc,etc,etc?

Some of the laws are definitely overkill, but others are aimed at fixing a few key important areas.

[WWWTT]

No one is talking about the CPP.

Oh yes I guess you are right.

Thats a smaller seperate cheque everyone recieves at 65 right?

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

That companies would invest, and that corporate tax receipts would actually. Even in this climate, IIRC, they have.

Same would have happened if the cuts didn't go ahead and as deep!

Only difference now is that the middle class or the consumer now is further burdened and will have less to further invest into the economy.

By the way,consumer always trumps the large corporations!

WWWTT

[Smallc]

Same would have happened if the cuts didn't go ahead and as deep!

Would it have?

Only difference now is that the middle class or the consumer now is further burdened and will have less to further invest into the economy.

Actually, the middle class is paying less tax than 20 years ago now.

[WWWTT]

Would it have?



Actually, the middle class is paying less tax than 20 years ago now.

Can you back up either of your claims with reputable sites?

WWWTT

[Smallc]

Can you back up either of your claims with reputable sites?

WWWTT

The first claim? No, and neither can you. The second, I can, since tax rates have, in the last 20 years, been indexed, lowered, and there has been tax credits introduced up the ring yang (I'm not really in favour of those). There are also figures that show the Canadian economy is now taxed at a rate of 32.2%, down from closer to 35% about 10 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Canada

That wikipedia page has some very nice citations for you.

[msj]

Oh yes I guess you are right.

Thats a smaller seperate cheque everyone recieves at 65 right?

WWWTT

For some the OAS cheque is more than CPP.

For those who have lived in Canada for 35+ years they get about $6,400 per year for merely residing here.

That is different from CPP for which one pays into based on earned income and the size of the pension received is based on how much has been paid in over a certain amount of years.

Now, the GIS (guaranteed income supplement) is linked to OAS and is for low income seniors.

This goes to the poorest seniors and you must be at least 65 in order to collect.

It also gets clawed back at the rate of 50 cents on the dollar. So, if you earn $1,000 of interest income you get $500 less in GIS than you otherwise would have received.

[WWWTT]

The first claim? No, and neither can you. The second, I can, since tax rates have, in the last 20 years, been indexed, lowered, and there has been tax credits introduced up the ring yang (I'm not really in favour of those). There are also figures that show the Canadian economy is now taxed at a rate of 32.2%, down from closer to 35% about 10 years ago

Does that include the Ontario HST and all the different services that are now subject to the provincial portion of the tax?

What about the municipal taxes climbing faster than inflation?And all the other new fees being levied by all levels of government?After all the government has become very creative in creating new fees that are not being labelled with the boogey-man word "Taxes"(development,liscensing,certificates,etc,etc)

Another flaw I found.Our wages/salaries are continuasly rising to keep up with inflation.We are all in higher tax brackets now as compared to 10 years ago.However our standard of living has not changed.In order to correct for inflation,the rate we pay must decrease.

Nice try but I am not brainwashed to always believe in smoke and mirrors!

WWWTT

[August1991]

OAS is in great shape right now. You are talking as if it is eating up our whole capacity to tax. It isn't even close. As a society we really can do anything we want. Telling me we are broke when we aren't isn't the way to win that argument.

The CPP is in good shape because Martin imposed a 10% payroll tax. Nevertheless, I reckon that the CPPIB will piss the billions away, like the Caisse.

Those are some very sobering numbers. The current entitlements are unsustainable.

Hats off to previous govts who took measures to make CPP the sustainable model that it is now. Canada is in an enviable position compared to Harpers audience in Europe. Most developed countries face the same issues of a rapidly aging population, but most countries also have the serious handicap of funding pensions entirely from revenues, whereas a good chunk of CPP will come from investment.

Huh?

The CPP/RRQ is a regressive payroll tax on the poor.

Its a lot of fun reading some of the comments here on this thread!

Automatically the conservatives take Harpers side stating that CPP can no longer sustain itself,if not now then maybe in 20 years.

I agree that many posters don't know, and so they just take a partisan side.

For some the OAS cheque is more than CPP. For those who have lived in Canada for 35+ years they get about $6,400 per year for merely residing here.

That is different from CPP for which one pays into based on earned income and the size of the pension received is based on how much has been paid in over a certain amount of years.

Now, the GIS (guaranteed income supplement) is linked to OAS and is for low income seniors. This goes to the poorest seniors and you must be at least 65 in order to collect. It also gets clawed back at the rate of 50 cents on the dollar. So, if you earn $1,000 of interest income you get $500 less in GIS than you otherwise would have received.

msj, thanks for this clarification.

Across Canada, we have three State welfare schemes for old people: CPP/RRQ, OAP, GIS.

The question is whether old people will continue to receive this State welfare. More pertinently, the question is whether retired State employees (teachers, nurses, doctors, civil servants) will continue to receive the pensions promised to them.

To compare: In the private sector in the US, many people in 2007 believed that their house was worth alot. Then, they discovered it was not. There are bubbles, and then other bubbles. Private bubbles are one thing, State bubbles another.

I fear that too many Canadians naively trust in the CPP/RRQ, OAP, GIS (and in particular, Canadian civil servant/state employees who trust in a State pension). Like rising house prices, people believe that the State will care for them. What happens when house prices fall, or the State changes pensions rules?

In particular, what happens when the State arbitrarily changes the conditions of its employees, retirees?

----

If I were a civil servant dependant on a State pension, I would fear future changes.

OWS? The State is no longer what it was. The Mob may soon be in control.

Edited by August1991, 27 January 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[msj]

Another flaw I found.Our wages/salaries are continuasly rising to keep up with inflation.We are all in higher tax brackets now as compared to 10 years ago.However our standard of living has not changed.In order to correct for inflation,the rate we pay must decrease.

The Liberals brought back indexation of the tax brackets over 10 years ago.

Nice try but I am not brainwashed to always believe in smoke and mirrors!

WWWTT

Oh, no, I'm sure we couldn't fool someone like you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Across Canada, we have three State welfare schemes for old people: CPP/RRQ, OAP, GIS.


To compare:....

What...no "food stamps"? How barbaric!

Canada does not have a food stamp program. When I was young I was always confused by the references to food stamps in MAD magazine.

[msj]

The CPP is in good shape because Martin imposed a 10% payroll tax.

No, he raised the CPP rate from the 5% that the Liberals inherited in 1993 to 9.9% by 2003.

This has made CPP sustainable to at least 2075 based on very conservative investment returns (i.e. the CPPIB only needs to earn about 4% per year to ensure CPP is self-sustaining).

Heaven forbid if people have to pay for something to ensure they receive a benefit in the future.

[Smallc]

Oh, no, I'm sure we couldn't fool someone like you.