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Caterpillar to close London, Ont. locomotive plant


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#16 Boges

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

No, they're not. That's silly. The unions and their need the companies. The companies most certainly do NOT need the unions.


Apparently these workers made $34/hour. In London, Ontario that pretty close to rich.

http://www.thestar.c...plant-in-london

Companies certainly don't need Unions.

#17 Scotty

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:17 PM

Apparently these workers made $34/hour. In London, Ontario that pretty close to rich.

http://www.thestar.c...plant-in-london

Companies certainly don't need Unions.


The company was demanding they cut that to $16hr. That is not an honest attempt to bring wages to a lower level. Further, the company managed to thrive and be profitable right up until Caterpillar took over. Nor has Caterpillar made any effort to demonstrate that it is incapable of turning a profit under the current wage agreement. And of course, Caterpillar itself is an immensely profitable company which just reported record profits.
It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy

#18 Scotty

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

You're safe, as long as you don't demand artifically high wages and benefits of which can't be supported by the work that you do. It's just common sense. Which I realized hasn't been part of unions for a long time.


What do you consider 'artificially high' wages? Would that be wages high enough to buy a house with?

Or more than the $2hr the workers in China get?
It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy

#19 Boges

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:06 PM

And of course, Caterpillar itself is an immensely profitable company which just reported record profits.


Probably by paying their workers $16/hour.

$16/hour in Indiana where I read the work for this plant is going is a livable wage. Check how much real estate is in that state.

However I do understand that a 50% wage cut isn't something ideal for the Union to bend to. I can see that they'd rather lose those jobs than allow their members to work for wages reduced to that extent.

#20 Cameron

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:12 PM

For all the hot air opposition members are spewing, I'm waiting for a private members bill that would amend the Investment Canada Act.

Lets wait and see.
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#21 Wild Bill

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

If Harris had kept the Auto Pact, then Ontario wouldn't have so many unemployed, so unless Ontario can find a large area of oil, the only help from Ottawa will be EI.


Topaz, I thought the Auto Pact was long because of the World Trade Organization declared it illegal.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia....ducts_Agreement

"The Auto Pact was abolished in 2001 after a World Trade Organization ruling declared it illegal, though by that time the North American Free Trade Agreement had effectively superseded it."

Now as far as I knew, Harris did not run the World Trade Organization. I also always thought that NAFTA was a federal agreement between Ottawa and the USA.

Still, I could be all wrong. Wiki too! They've been criticized before for being inaccurate sometimes.

Perhaps you could explain to me in more detail how Harris is at fault.

If things get too tiring you can checkout this youtube clip:


Edited by Wild Bill, 03 February 2012 - 09:19 PM.

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#22 bush_cheney2004

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:37 PM

.... And of course, Caterpillar itself is an immensely profitable company which just reported record profits.



Gee..I wonder how it got that way? Certainly not by paying bloated wages and benefits to coddled union labor.

Workers in Muncie, Indiana (and Brazil) are more than happy to take on this work at much lower wages. Indiana is a Right to Work state now...the UAW can take lower wages or take a hike.

EMD was never a Canadian company.

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#23 August1991

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:59 PM

The reality of unions is that they exist to further the interests of their members, by negotiating deals for more money, benefits, job security.

FT, you say a hidden truth.

These CAT employees in London are no longer union members - or at least, they no longer pay union dues.
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#24 msj

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:29 AM

What do you consider 'artificially high' wages? Would that be wages high enough to buy a house with?



If companies are going to be paying their employees based on how much real estate is then Canada is in big trouble: Average Canadian Home Price Twice That of U.S.
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#25 Boges

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:11 AM

If companies are going to be paying their employees based on how much real estate is then Canada is in big trouble: Average Canadian Home Price Twice That of U.S.


It's interesting, when you consider how much the prices of products have dropped in recent years. You can make a decent living on a lot less.

It's a lot to have a decent life in the US as opposed to Canada.

#26 mentalfloss

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:50 AM

Gee..I wonder how it got that way? Certainly not by paying bloated wages and benefits to coddled union labor.


Caterpillar has been around for a long time.

The fact that it is so profitable in light of these "bloated wages" just goes to show that they aren't bloated at all.

But now, because of Caterpillar's stubbornness, we've lost 450 manufacturing jobs and all those tax breaks the corporation was granted are going to be used to fuel their business in the U.S. So, basically, the taxpayer gets screwed because corporate tax cuts had no influence whatsoever on Caterpillar's decision.

Edited by mentalfloss, 04 February 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#27 Scotty

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:53 AM

Gee..I wonder how it got that way? Certainly not by paying bloated wages and benefits to coddled union labor.

Workers in Muncie, Indiana (and Brazil) are more than happy to take on this work at much lower wages. Indiana is a Right to Work state now...the UAW can take lower wages or take a hike.

EMD was never a Canadian company.


Ah, the joy in Republican circles, the rubbing of hands in glee at the prospect of the America they're building. All the rich will live in massive, walled fortresses. All the rest will live a gray existence, working from dusk to dawn and going back to their tiny shacks while the corporations pump untaxed money into the pockets of the rich. "Push those wages down more, boys! They're still half again as high as the Chinese!"
It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy

#28 Scotty

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:57 AM

FT, you say a hidden truth.

These CAT employees in London are no longer union members - or at least, they no longer pay union dues.


Perhaps we too will learn the error of our ways and someday enjoy the great living of the people of Mississippi, and Arkansas, and other great 'right to work' states.

Heck, medical care? Pensions? Livable wages? Who needs em! They just get in the way of profit!
It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy

#29 cybercoma

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:58 AM

I'm sure those Union members are thrilled with the CAW. I wonder if Electro-motive has a "Re-deployment" provision. :lol:

Many people just lost their jobs and you're laughing about it? I think you need to take a hard look at your value system.

#30 bush_cheney2004

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:11 PM

...But now, because of Caterpillar's stubbornness, we've lost 450 manufacturing jobs and all those tax breaks the corporation was granted are going to be used to fuel their business in the U.S. So, basically, the taxpayer gets screwed because corporate tax cuts had no influence whatsoever on Caterpillar's decision.



Stupid is as stupid does. I say again...EMD was never a Canadian company.

Economics trumps Virtue.

Where has all the warming gone...long time passing.

 




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