88 replies to this topic

[Peeves]

Harper apologists aside..... no, that particular $5 million was a direct subsidy/break to Electro-Motive as announced by Harper on the floor of the London plant... this was over and above the other wider tax breaks.

that "American First" policy talking point is also false... there is no requires element, nothing forcing the policy on Caterpillar... it is to Cat's advantage to do so, but there is no requirement. It's simply another example that shows the corporate greed element at play.

Not true. Purchasers got a break, not the manufacturer.

[Peeves]

Actually I'm laughing at the idea of a Re-deployment provision. (see the Toronto Labour situation)

I made that post before I realized what was being proposed. You can't expect people making $34/hour which I do think is a bloated wage to go down to $16. I don't blame the union for not bending to these demands.

It's clear CAT's motive was to close the plant in the first place.

Was the $34/p/hour inclusive of medical plans (drugs dental/vision care), retirement plans, paid vacation time?

What were the benefits above and beyond the $16.00 and what did the total of all benefits come to?


Often times it's the benefits not the wage per hour that sinks a company or closes a branch.

[Topaz]

Unless you know someone that works at CAT, we don't know the complete picture of benefits, but there again, what ever it was it had been worked out with the two parties until one party says I quit! Fine, CAT should have been given more of a time lapse for these workers and foreign companies shouldn't be able to sell thier produce in Canada until, all the benefits, clean up cost etc. is completed. Another point also, NOT all unions are as greedy as some of you think. Since I had friends and family that did workers down at the Navistar plant, those workers gave up $40 MILLION of benefits and wages in 2003, when the company threaten to leave and then the province and the Feds threw 25 MIllion to keep them here until 2009, when the company said goodbye and had built a plant down in Mexico, probably with the 25 Mil. I will also say, a new generation of people took over the company in the late 1990's and early 2000's and word was they were anti-Canadian. The CAT workers and the CAW have a tough job ahead trying to settle for a closure settlement, and if its anything like Navistar, CAW will be years trying to get it and again no help from governments.

[bush_cheney2004]

Unless you know someone that works at CAT, we don't know the complete picture of benefits, but there again, what ever it was it had been worked out with the two parties until one party says I quit! Fine, CAT should have been given more of a time lapse for these workers

Nope...contract termination provisions are spelled out loud and clear in the fine print. You know, the contract that union labor lives to die for.

and foreign companies shouldn't be able to sell thier produce in Canada until, all the benefits, clean up cost etc. is completed.

But it's OK for Canadian mining companies to scar the earth and communities in other nations, right?

....The CAT workers and the CAW have a tough job ahead trying to settle for a closure settlement, and if its anything like Navistar, CAW will be years trying to get it and again no help from governments.

CAT eats union rubes for breakfast...has for years. The CAW isn't big enough or bad enough.

Edited by bush_cheney2004, 07 February 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[fellowtraveller]

The CAT workers and the CAW have a tough job ahead trying to settle for a closure settlement, and if its anything like Navistar, CAW will be years trying to get it and again no help from governments.

What is a closure settlement?
CAW and CAT have a collective agreement that will cover termination of positions. If they don't, it's another sign of idiocy at CAW.

[ron Young]

I blame the unions for never being satisfied until the plant is closed. I blame the company for being cut throat. I blame the workers for paying their union to screw them over for life.

When is enough really enough??? If we didn't live beyond our means we certainly wouldn't need to be making 34/38 bux an hour....LOL.

Surprised it actually took this long.....Workers in Illinois are just salivating for 16 an hour.

[scribblet]

Not true. Purchasers got a break, not the manufacturer.

Right, and is a myth that needs to be put aside
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/juggle%2Bhuman%2Brights%2Btrade%2Bissues/6117445/story.html#ixzz1lno6whe5

[waldo]

Right, and is a myth that needs to be put aside
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/juggle%2Bhuman%2Brights%2Btrade%2Bissues/6117445/story.html#ixzz1lno6whe5

linkee?

in any case, best you get your talking points straight... and line up around the right $5 million subsidy being referenced.

[Renegade]

Right, and is a myth that needs to be put aside
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/juggle%2Bhuman%2Brights%2Btrade%2Bissues/6117445/story.html#ixzz1lno6whe5

Have a read: The $5-million Electro-Motive subsidy that wasn't

[Topaz]

First of all, these guys that work at this plant can't find another job like it in Canada. For some with a mortgage, car loan, kids in college, 16hrly wage is impossible to live on and so I understand why they voted to strike and they didn't know the company had plans of leaving Canada and going back to the US and employ inexperience workers, which will show up on the quality of those locomotives. Today, in the House, London Tories were saying isn't wasn't their and all the great things they have done for citizens in London. The opposition parties want change to the 35 old industry and labour rules for foreign companies in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

First of all, these guys that work at this plant can't find another job like it in Canada.

Then they are way too specialized. If the only place they can work is at American locomotive companies, it's a wonder they lasted this long!

For some with a mortgage, car loan, kids in college, 16hrly wage is impossible to live on and so I understand why they voted to strike

A lot of other people can live on $16.00 / hour. What's so special about these prima donnas in London?

and they didn't know the company had plans of leaving Canada and going back to the US and employ inexperience workers, which will show up on the quality of those locomotives.

Yeah...nobody can build quality locomotives like ex-EMD employees from the CAW.

Today, in the House, London Tories were saying isn't wasn't their and all the great things they have done for citizens in London. The opposition parties want change to the 35 old industry and labour rules for foreign companies in Canada.

Good timing, because a lot more companies will be leaving.

[PIK]

They weren't going to keep the plant in Canada even if the workers took half pay PIK. They bought the manufacturer to get the contracts, and knowledge they have been waiting to shut this place down for a year. You are being crazy if you think they were going to keep this place open, they have a plant in Indiana where workers earn 28,000 a year they don't pay health-care and no pensions. These Canadians workers never stood a chance, yet Harper was all about this sale and the photo op.

Blame harper. Well in my job I deal with alot of industries and dalton has to take his share of the blame. He has sent the labour and safty board out and is tormenting the industry business. One plant 140 yrs old is closing because china was tough on them, but the killer was every time a labour board came in ,it cost between 5 -10 g's. Another plant needs to suicide proof it's equiptment, yes suicide proof it, it will probably move also.The regs in this province are a little over done. Typical liberal move ,wrap everything in bubble wrap.

[Peeves]

If the union executive/ business agent wanted to support their members rather than their own reputation they would have called the company on the offer to see if it was sincere or a bluff.

If they had accepted, they would still have the fringe benefits (I believe) for health care etc. They could get the plant operating and then negotiate with the employer next contract.


That's no longer an option. So it seems to me they cut off their nose to spite their face.

Sitting in the mall now bragging to one another,,,I'd be getting $34.oo/hour if I was working now."

Small victory.

[Peeves]

Blame harper. Well in my job I deal with alot of industries and dalton has to take his share of the blame. He has sent the labour and safty board out and is tormenting the industry business. One plant 140 yrs old is closing because china was tough on them, but the killer was every time a labour board came in ,it cost between 5 -10 g's. Another plant needs to suicide proof it's equiptment, yes suicide proof it, it will probably move also.The regs in this province are a little over done. Typical liberal move ,wrap everything in bubble wrap.

That's pure B/S I dealt with this crap for decades.

If anyone pushes for stricter laws on H& S it's labor, it's the NDP.