47 replies to this topic

[olpfan1]

Great, put those euro yo-yos in their place! I hope the UK votes no

http://www.guardian....da-eu-tar-sands

Canada has threatened a trade war with European Union over the bloc's plan to label oil from Alberta's vast tar sands as highly polluting, the Guardian can reveal, before a key vote in Brussels on 23 February.

"Canada will not hesitate to defend its interests, including at the World Trade Organisation," state letters sent to European commissioners by Canada's ambassador to the EU and its oil minister, released under freedom of information laws.

The move is a significant escalation of the row over the EU's plans, which Canada fears would set a global precedent and derail its ability to exploit its tar sands, which are the biggest fossil fuel reserve in the world after Saudi Arabia. Environmental groups argue that exploitation of the tar sands, also called oil sands, is catastrophic for the global climate, as well as causing serious air and water pollution in Alberta.

Darek Urbaniak, at Friends of the Earth Europe, which obtained the new documents, said: "These letters are further evidence of Canadian government and industry lobbying, which continuously undermines efforts to combat climate change. We find it unacceptable that the Canadian government now openly uses direct threats at the highest political levels to derail crucial EU climate legislation."

Edited by olpfan1, 20 February 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[waldo]

new thread? You were already beating the same drum over here => UK secretly helping Canada (Harper) with oil sands

[olpfan1]

new thread? You were already beating the same drum over here => UK secretly helping Canada (Harper) with oil sands

different topics... that one is about UKs help and this one is Canada threatening a trade war with the E.U......
do you have anything relevant to add?

Edited by olpfan1, 20 February 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[waldo]

do you have anything relevant to add?

see previous thread on same trade agreement theme - the one that has you also chastising the EU, hyping the U.K, and questioning the need/want for a trade agreement.

in any case, the other threads focus on covert Harper Conservative pursuits does get mentioned in your own link. Although you didn't bother to quote highlight those references, I can do so... in the interests of, as you say, adding relevance:

The unveiling of Canada's threats is the latest in a series of recent embarrassing revelations. On 12 February, the occurrence of a secret strategy "retreat" in London in 2011 was discovered. High-level officials discussed the "critical" issue of winning the tar sands argument in the EU, to "mitigate the impact on the Canadian brand" and to protect the "huge investments from the likes of Shell, BP, Total and Statoil". Representatives of Shell, Total and Statoil attended the meeting alongside the UK's state-owned Royal Bank of Scotland and the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

In December, the Guardian revealed the secret high-level help given to the Canada by the UK government, which included David Cameron discussing the issue with his counterpart Stephen Harper during a visit to Canada, and stating privately that the UK wanted "to work with Canada on finding a way forward". Canada's minister for natural resources, Joe Oliver, stated: "[The British] have been very, very helpful."

The UK proposed an alternative "banded" approach to ascribing carbon emissions to different fuel types, which does not single out tar sands.

[olpfan1]

see previous thread on same trade agreement theme - the one that has you also chastising the EU, hyping the U.K, and questioning the need/want for a trade agreement.

in any case, the other threads focus on covert Harper Conservative pursuits does get mentioned in your own link. Although you didn't bother to quote highlight those references, I can do so... in the interests of, as you say, adding relevance:

I didnt quote them because the article was too long
I'm not sure I see anything negative either... but I'm sure you do

Edited by olpfan1, 20 February 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Battletoads]

So Harper's going to start a trade war with the largest economy in the world to protect Alberta?

[olpfan1]

So Harper's going to start a trade war with the largest economy in the world to protect Alberta?

It's not like we do much trade with them anyway, plus the E.U is not going to last more than a year if even that

[Tilter]

It's not like we do much trade with them anyway, plus the E.U is not going to last more than a year if even that

Apparently some scientist has evaluated global warming that would result if ALL the oilsands oil was consumed it would raise the global temperature by 1/2 a degree. By the same guy-- if all the coal were consumed it would raise the global temp. 15 degrees.

[Tilter]

It's not like we do much trade with them anyway, plus the E.U is not going to last more than a year if even that

They are under huge financial strains from the "entitlement" crowd. A report on Greece's working population showed that less than 20% paid income tax and these are the people that insist on retiring at age 57. Germany & France want to raise the age to 67 and the people are a little pissed that they are to contribute multi Euros to the Greek economy while Greeks retain their idiotic habits of entitlement.

[Argus]

What the Europeans do is not really that important. And threatening to protest to trade bodies is not 'starting a trade war' despite the excitability of the media.

I am quite sure the Chinese will buy any and all oil we produce by whatever means we produce it. For that matter, we don't even supply 100% of our own needs through this oil, so there's plenty of ways to expand the sale and use of it.

[olpfan1]

We'll see Thursday Argus

[dre]

They are under huge financial strains from the "entitlement" crowd. A report on Greece's working population showed that less than 20% paid income tax and these are the people that insist on retiring at age 57. Germany & France want to raise the age to 67 and the people are a little pissed that they are to contribute multi Euros to the Greek economy while Greeks retain their idiotic habits of entitlement.

Youre ignoring the role that international bankers and investment bankers have played. They flooded Greece with easy cheap credit, and then investment banks like GoldMan Sachs set up currency swaps to help the government hide the debt from its citizens and creditors.

Responsible lenders would have downgraded Greek debt years ago, and if they had done so this crisis never would have gotten as bad.

What you are seeing today is the systematic LOOTING on a nation by money printing central bankers, who have now installed an unelected puppet government in Greece.

[bush_cheney2004]

...What you are seeing today is the systematic LOOTING on a nation by money printing central bankers, who have now installed an unelected puppet government in Greece.

Poor Greeks...hapless victims of the Big Bad "Investment Bankers". They were so innocent always did the right thing. Curse those heartless bankers!

[dre]

Poor Greeks...hapless victims of the Big Bad "Investment Bankers". They were so innocent always did the right thing. Curse those heartless bankers!

Greeks behave the same way pretty much any population does when credit conditions are overly favorable. Governments, businesses, and people over-leverage, and consume against debt. No different than what people in the US did.

The difference is the US is able to engage in competitive devaluation, and allow its currency to lose value. Greece made the gigantic mistake of surrendering this tool to the IMF/ECB/EU. You are at least right in the sense that they caused many of their own problems. But theres a market based mechanism for dealing with that... its called floating exchange rates. Countries with unsustainable national policies devalue their currencies, and they have a way harder time selling bonds. This essentially raises the rates at which they borrow money, and forces them to deal with the debt. This would have happened years ago if Greece was on the drachma and it would have been almost impossible for them to get in the trouble they are in now.

[bush_cheney2004]

Greeks behave the same way pretty much any population does when credit conditions are overly favorable. Governments, businesses, and people over-leverage, and consume against debt. No different than what people in the US did.

The "people in the US" also pay their taxes.

The difference is the US is able to engage in competitive devaluation, and allow its currency to lose value. Greece made the gigantic mistake of surrendering this tool to the IMF/ECB/EU. You are at least right in the sense that they caused many of their own problems.

Ya think?

... This would have happened years ago if Greece was on the drachma and it would have been almost impossible for them to get in the trouble they are in now.

But it wasn't on the drachma, and whose decision was that?