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Experts Say Iran Attack Is Irrational, Yet Hawks Are Winning the Debat


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#46 WWWTT

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:51 PM

Sorry, but I have heard too many things from Ahmadinejad that are absolutely loopy to have any faith in the rationality of Iran's leadership.

Wow I never knew that you know how to spek Arabic/Iranian!

Good for you Wild!Good for you!

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#47 DogOnPorch

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

Wow I never knew that you know how to spek Arabic/Iranian!

Good for you Wild!Good for you!

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#48 kactus

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:00 PM

I have seen this said so many times before, that an attack on Iran would solidify support amongst its people.

How does anyone know this? Is it not just an opinion?


More than 60% of the population is under the age of 30. That is a fact! This young generation do not exactly have a recollection of IRAN/ Iraq war. That said the support of saddam in the eighties by the western governments to go into war with Iran is well documented.

Wouldn't it be more likely that an underground "Arab Spring" movement might seize the opportunity to oust the mullahs?


Not sure what this overused phrase to term "arab spring has anything to do with Iran. But since you mentioned opportunity to oust mullahs lets reflect on the infamous "green
movement" almost three years ago backed by CIA that didn't have any impact on "regime change". Why should it be any different this time?

#49 Wild Bill

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:49 PM

More than 60% of the population is under the age of 30. That is a fact! This young generation do not exactly have a recollection of IRAN/ Iraq war. That said the support of saddam in the eighties by the western governments to go into war with Iran is well documented.


Not sure what this overused phrase to term "arab spring has anything to do with Iran. But since you mentioned opportunity to oust mullahs lets reflect on the infamous "green
movement" almost three years ago backed by CIA that didn't have any impact on "regime change". Why should it be any different this time?


I don't know and I don't pretend to know! Just as I would never say that the population of Iran would automatically pull together and support the mullahs if someone attacked Iran.

After all, western media has no problem being distributed within Iran. I've no doubt that the people there are well aware that if Iran is attacked it would be because of the actions of their religious government.

At that point, do they still automatically support that government? They likely have other issues with their lack of freedoms, particularly with the younger demographic. They might well prefer to oust that government, removing the need for outside pressures and sanctions instantly and allowing more freedom within their own lives.

Others keep making that statement of the Iranian people banding around their government. It's up to them to prove that premise, not me!

Frankly, I don't think the premise has that much merit. I think it is just words to try to discourage outside attacks. The only people who would benefit would then be the mullahs.
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#50 jbg

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

so i wonder why there are people who are still salivating at the chance for another war.

Why in your mind is the West always wrong? Who in their right mind wants a bunch of Iranian clerics to be able to go nuclear?

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#51 bud

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:04 AM

Why in your mind is the West always wrong? Who in their right mind wants a bunch of Iranian clerics to be able to go nuclear


the west is not always wrong but their bullying and imperialism is. so is their double standards on issues such as who it's okay to have nukes and who is not.

i think israel/pakistan/india/etc. having nukes is not any less dangerous than iran having nukes. the iranian clerics would not be suicidal to use them. it's not just me who thinks this, but also the experts both in the u.s. and israel. i'm talking about the real experts such as generals and heads of mossad and idf.

#52 DogOnPorch

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:59 AM

Can you explain to the rest of us what the significance of the Mahdi is in Shia Islam...the one the bearded ones in Tehran believe in?

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#53 kactus

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:53 AM

I don't know and I don't pretend to know! Just as I would never say that the population of Iran would automatically pull together and support the mullahs if someone attacked Iran.

After all, western media has no problem being distributed within Iran. I've no doubt that the people there are well aware that if Iran is attacked it would be because of the actions of their religious government.

At that point, do they still automatically support that government? They likely have other issues with their lack of freedoms, particularly with the younger demographic. They might well prefer to oust that government, removing the need for outside pressures and sanctions instantly and allowing more freedom within their own lives.

Others keep making that statement of the Iranian people banding around their government. It's up to them to prove that premise, not me!

Frankly, I don't think the premise has that much merit. I think it is just words to try to discourage outside attacks. The only people who would benefit would then be the mullahs.


I am not stating that you should know. What I mentioned about dempgraphy of the population in my earlier post is a fact that is undisputed. You can be sure that if a foreign force decides to take over Canada tomorrow (let's say for the sake of argument) that will bring a sense of unity amongst canadians irrespective if people hate their government. Many Iranians of this new generation may not appreciate the policies of the government but they love their country and its heritage. This has nothing to do with supporting clerics but much more to do with nationalistic sentiments. Furthermore, the new generation are very well tuned into the latest news on the region and can see what happens to those countries whose regime collapsed and a puppet government were backed by western governments in the name of democracy! And still no sign of better prospect yet. Middle East and North Africa is full of countries that fit this and no one can just keep a close eye on the events unfolding....Again as I pointed out earlier a change within the regime was already tried and tested as many know in the context of the "green movement" three years ago when there were rumours that there was an election fraud. You have to realise that the internal political forces within Iran are quite well established with many divisions and is not a tin fold puppet government you see in many middle eastern country.

The link below provides a comprehensive detailed overview of the Iran's polical parties and the cleric rule for those interested:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-17141030

#54 Wild Bill

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:56 AM

I am not stating that you should know. What I mentioned about dempgraphy of the population in my earlier post is a fact that is undisputed. You can be sure that if a foreign force decides to take over Canada tomorrow (let's say for the sake of argument) that will bring a sense of unity amongst canadians irrespective if people hate their government.


That is your opinion, not a fact. Would it not depend on the type of government that is hated?

Supposed somehow we had wound up with a totalitarian government? Or a religious one? Suppose some Stockwell Day had used some parliamentary tricks to get a party of evangelical social engineers into power?

Wouldn't it also depend on which foreign force was doing the invading? In the scenario I mentioned, if America, Britain or some other freedom loving country that better reflected my own values were to be the invader I would support them in an instant!

If you really think everyone would automatically support a government they consider oppressive, nay - if not actually evil! - then I think you give the individual man short shrift for his sense of morality.

Hell, we have posters right here on MLW who would cheerfully support a foreign invader if they came here to oust Harper! :P
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#55 eyeball

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:56 AM

Can you explain to the rest of us what the significance of the Mahdi is in Shia Islam...the one the bearded ones in Tehran believe in?


They believe in the same Judgement day crap that western fundies do. They're the ying to our yang, as carrots are to peas. They were made for each other.

It's all been prophesied. You didn't get the memo?

Edited by eyeball, 27 February 2012 - 07:56 AM.


#56 DogOnPorch

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:03 AM

They believe in the same Judgement day crap that western fundies do. They're the ying to our yang, as carrots are to peas. They were made for each other.

It's all been prophesied. You didn't get the memo?


Didn't ask you.

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#57 eyeball

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:17 AM

Didn't ask you.

So what, you'll get the same answer. You already know in fact so why even ask?

#58 Wolf Larsen

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

Somebody said something (in jest) about "death to America".

It certainly is true that the bourgeoisie and the capitalist politicians of both political parties are bringing about the "death of America." The capitalist politicians and the war profiteers are bringing our nation into bankruptcy with their endless wars and bailouts of the rich.

It is time for the capitalist politicians of both political parties and the rich who are bringing about the downfall of our nation to go get a job! Let them pick up garbage off the ground for food stamps! Let them learn how to work!

We have already been burdened with two wars at the same time: Iraq and Afghanistan. The last thing we need is another war! If the capitalist politicians of both political parties and the war profiteers want another war let them go fight it themselves! Not one more dime for the military! No more wars! The war machine (and bailouts for the rich) are bankrupting our nation!

There are already too many injured veterans from the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq who've been abandoned by the American government. This is an absolute outrage! And now the war profiteers & capitalist politicians of both political parties want another war?? They are insane!!
Capitalism Sucks!



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