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Question isnít where conservatism is going, but where has it gone


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#16 Wild Bill

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:49 AM

Unfortunately, the PC sold their souls to the Alliance and Harper, the prime reformer, hides his ideas under the name Conservative and I sure there's PCs within the party that don't agree and some have left because they don't agree. I don't know if some of these Tories MP's realize the damage that the leader and some of his VIP's MP's are doing to their respectability as MP's. In this case, silence is not golden.


As usual Topaz, your blindness means you see it entirely backwards! All those points in the article were championed by the Reform/Alliance! The fact that they are missing from today's Conservative Party is what makes it a clone of the previous PC party!

What's more, those points are NOT with either the Liberals or the NDP!

Today, we Canadians of the Reform/Alliance persuasion have NO real choice anymore, except to vote CPC because they are SLIGHTLY more to our values than the others!

What's more, at least the CPC might throw us a bone once in a while, even if there's no meat on it. The Liberals and NDP make no secret of the fact that they don't support our values at all.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."

-- George Bernard Shaw


"There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."

#17 punked

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:58 AM

As usual Topaz, your blindness means you see it entirely backwards! All those points in the article were championed by the Reform/Alliance! The fact that they are missing from today's Conservative Party is what makes it a clone of the previous PC party!

What's more, those points are NOT with either the Liberals or the NDP!

Today, we Canadians of the Reform/Alliance persuasion have NO real choice anymore, except to vote CPC because they are SLIGHTLY more to our values than the others!

What's more, at least the CPC might throw us a bone once in a while, even if there's no meat on it. The Liberals and NDP make no secret of the fact that they don't support our values at all.

Except for privacy and Civil Liberties which the NDP have shown they are more in line with the Reform voter then the CPC is. In terms of fiscal Liberties (my money is mine not the governments) maybe the Cons are closer to the Reform voter but the Cons have left you guys in terms of Civil Liberties I can not believe after 6 years of this the Reform voters are allowing the Cons to act the way they act.

#18 Michael Hardner

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:02 PM

I take the fact that Wild Bill, Topaz and Punked can't agree whether the Conservative party is Reform/Alliance or Progressive Conservative as...

proof that the parties indeed did merge the two sides equitably.

If you ask me, the new party is PC in practice, with a soul of Reform... a gleam in their eyes that only comes through in those nickle-and-dime ways such as asking REAL women to submit nominations for an award, or in the odd pronouncement on same-sexity in Canada...

No one is happy, so everyone is happy. Or maybe the opposite.

#19 Michael Hardner

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:03 PM

...there's that saying that in a fair compromise, neither side is truly happy.

So everybody is happy... or nobody...

#20 Argus

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

There's a lot of truth in what Coyne said, but there's also truth in the Tory suggestion that you need to get elected before you can make incremental change. Consider that despite all Coyne has written about the party's very centrist and even liberalish behavior up until now you don't have to work hard to find people who will describe them as a 'hard right', or 'far right' radical government. The level of paranoia, hysteria, fear and suspicion of Harper shows no signs of receding. There are people who compare him to Hitler - unfavorably. You'd think he'd spent the last six years butchering little babies or something for all his cruel, evil government has done. Yet he hasn't even acted like a conservative government! Can you imagine what would have happened if he'd actually introduced a sharply conservative agenda? Even now, as Coyne says, their 'get tough' budget is only supposed to pare down about ten percent of the additional spending THEY INTRODUCED! And even if they do that they'll still be spending more, adjusted for inflation and population growth, than the Liberals did.

And yet it was this horrific conservative budgetary zeal which caused Quebec to run away in horror, which caused the squeamish denizens of Toronto and Vancouver such terror and contempt. Bleh. All this zealous, frenzied blather over a dull, middle-of-the-road government.
ďPublic opinion, I am sorry to say, will bear a great deal of nonsense. There is scarcely any absurdity so gross, whether in religion, politics, science or manners, which it will not bear.Ē Ralph Waldo Emerson

#21 fellowtraveller

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

Seriously you expect people to swallow that tripe?

No, I expect your head to explode
The government should do something.

#22 eyeball

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:43 PM

As usual Topaz, your blindness means you see it entirely backwards! All those points in the article were championed by the Reform/Alliance! The fact that they are missing from today's Conservative Party is what makes it a clone of the previous PC party!

What's more, those points are NOT with either the Liberals or the NDP!

Today, we Canadians of the Reform/Alliance persuasion have NO real choice anymore, except to vote CPC because they are SLIGHTLY more to our values than the others!

What's more, at least the CPC might throw us a bone once in a while, even if there's no meat on it. The Liberals and NDP make no secret of the fact that they don't support our values at all.

You must have been pretty happy to see Keith Martin leave - the only right-winger I've ever known with real principles.

#23 punked

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

No, I expect your head to explode

Nope not my head. I just good with the facts, year in the black/Years governed. The NDP comes out on top in terms of balanced budgets. Conservatives are just all talk about balanced budgets that much is clear from the way they govern.

#24 Evening Star

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

The left-wing bias of the media rears its ugly head again. Oh wait...

#25 Wild Bill

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:00 PM

You must have been pretty happy to see Keith Martin leave - the only right-winger I've ever known with real principles.


Keith Martin was a rightwinger? You have so many unfounded assumptions in that premise!

Was Reform truly a rightwing party? Was Martin himself a rightwinger?

The man was a doctor! I have never met a rightwing doctor in my life!

I never believed Reform to be rightwing. They were populist and practical. In many ways they seemed to me to be a closer match in many ways to classic liberalism, which is why they appealed to me in the first place.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."

-- George Bernard Shaw


"There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."

#26 punked

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:06 PM

Keith Martin was a rightwinger? You have so many unfounded assumptions in that premise!

Was Reform truly a rightwing party? Was Martin himself a rightwinger?

The man was a doctor! I have never met a rightwing doctor in my life!

I never believed Reform to be rightwing. They were populist and practical. In many ways they seemed to me to be a closer match in many ways to classic liberalism, which is why they appealed to me in the first place.

This can not be a serious post.

#27 jacee

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

Stephen Maher (the guy whos been doing the digging for the robocall story)was kicked
out of the manning conference


This seems to be a good place to juxtapose this irony ...

Preston Manning: Robocalls 'deplorable'

Then why ...
John Fryer ... attended a campaign school training offered by the Conservative-aligned Manning Centre for Democracy

The conversation that followed was deeply disturbing to Fryer. In a question and answer session, some attendees discussed voter suppression tactics. Attendees talked about posing as a member of another party, and about making rude calls at inconvenient times as a strategy to get the supporter of another party to not go out and vote for their candidate.
...
According to Fryer, "the mood of the meeting was that this is war and that anything goes."


Preston Manning might want to take another look at what's being percolated (perpetrated?) in his name.

#28 eyeball

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:47 PM

Keith Martin was a rightwinger? You have so many unfounded assumptions in that premise!

Was Reform truly a rightwing party? Was Martin himself a rightwinger?

The man was a doctor! I have never met a rightwing doctor in my life!

Okay, but my premise about right-wingers and principles still stands.

I never believed Reform to be rightwing. They were populist and practical. In many ways they seemed to me to be a closer match in many ways to classic liberalism, which is why they appealed to me in the first place.

I think your nose must either be in denial or blind, deaf, and stupid.

They represent the very worst kind of social - no make that, moral engineers. The Reform Party clearly rose to dominance on the back of the most socially conservative strongholds in Canada and did poorly wherever conservatism tended towards moderation.

Maybe your broken nose just needs a good punch to straighten out it's senses.

#29 capricorn

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

This seems to be a good place to juxtapose this irony ...
--
The conversation that followed was deeply disturbing to Fryer. In a question and answer session, some attendees discussed voter suppression tactics. Attendees talked about posing as a member of another party, and about making rude calls at inconvenient times as a strategy to get the supporter of another party to not go out and vote for their candidate.
...
According to Fryer, "the mood of the meeting was that this is war and that anything goes."


You are way behind in the news department Jacee.

Fryer had to retract and apologize for the allegations he made in the media.

Campaign Research on Thursday won an apology and retraction from Green party activist John Fryer, who had reported in a British Columbia publication that he had heard voter suppression tactics discussed at a Manning Centre campaign manager course in Victoria in 2010.


http://www.canada.co...3478/story.html

You can read his letter of apology here.

It looks like Mr. Fryer got carried away with the robocall hype.

Preston Manning might want to take another look at what's being percolated (perpetrated?) in his name.

I have a feeling Manning is very much aware of what's going on at the Manning Centre.

Interesting to note that the writer of that Vancouver Observer article is Emma Pullman of Leadnow.ca fame.

Emma is a Vancouver-based researcher, writer and campaigner focused on climate change and sustainability issues. She is the Director of Research of Leadnow.ca


"We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers



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