123 replies to this topic

[punked]

That's pretty selective. Under Chretien, the Liberals had almost as many seats and more votes than the Bloc.

No one wants Quebec to go back to the Chretien days when Separatism was alive and well except Liberals because their party had purpose.

[PIK]

No one wants Quebec to go back to the Chretien days when Separatism was alive and well except Liberals because their party had purpose.

Latest polls showing the NDP losing ground to the bloc.

[Smallc]

No one wants Quebec to go back to the Chretien days when Separatism was alive and well except Liberals because their party had purpose.

After the referendum, Separatism was at it's lowest level since...ever. That was also under Chretien. The only thing that brought it back up at all was sponsorship.

[mentalfloss]

I was watching the debate between Dion and Julian last night on CBC, and Dion was an absolute fail. He was obfuscating facts, interrupting Julian, and just being a complete shit the whole time. It was a complete farce.

[punked]

After the referendum, Separatism was at it's lowest level since...ever. That was also under Chretien. The only thing that brought it back up at all was sponsorship.

That must be why Bouchard won one more seat in 1998 promising another referendum even before sponsorship broke right? Because Chrietien crushed separatism so much they gave the Separatist a majority government again. Smallc you are way off the mark on this one.

[cybercoma]

If a simple majority is not enough for a referendum on confederation, then Newfoundland's presence is illegitimate. That's all it takes, but there's a hell of a lot more needed for a true secession than voting in a referendum.

Nobody wants Quebec to leave but the separatists and the NDP in Quebec is not a separatist party, regardless what some of you might think. If the CPC would have won 52 seats in Quebec, I highly doubt some of you would be saying they're just a different shade of "blue" or a replacement Bloc. Technically the CPC should stand for more provincial autonomy--even though pushing the tab for their pet projects onto the provinces suggests they don't--and therefore could be seen as even stronger supporters of Quebec's independence. Of all the federalist parties, the CPC is the closest to the separatists. In fact, Harper himself wanted to build a wall around Alberta, while Mulcair was working for the provincial Liberals against the PQ during the referenda in the 90s. So while some of you have this ridiculous idea that NDP is BQ light, perhaps you might want to take a look into your own backyard for which politicians and which party brass actually have the separatist sentiment in their blood.

[punked]

Latest polls showing the NDP losing ground to the bloc.

Wont matter because the Bloc lost more then just public opinion in the last vote, they lost seats which means they lose resources, Harper took all their money away, and the organization is suffer we can see this in the PQ playing out right now. They might not even make it to the next election organization wise. They are the weakest they have ever been right now, and with policies that reflect what the NDP is pushing anyway it will be a much harder fight for them in the future. Let the NDP get a new leader, rally around them and then tell me about the polls seriously.

[Newfoundlander]

The NDP believes if we work with the provinces ALL THE provinces, instead of telling them (look at the newest crime bill the provinces had no input in with the Conservatives, look at many many programs under the Liberals) you can have Federalism that works. That is what they ran on talking to not only Quebec but Alberta, NS, and so and agreeing on how things especially those things that effect the provinces can work better from coast to coast. Being good for Quebec and being good for BC are not mutually exclusive things. Lets find common ground and build up from there.

So if they brought in a national daycare system, or a gun registry they wouldn't impose it on provinces if they didn't want it, as well as allow them to explore alternative forms of health car delivery?

[Newfoundlander]

I was watching the debate between Dion and Julian last night on CBC, and Dion was an absolute fail. He was obfuscating facts, interrupting Julian, and just being a complete shit the whole time. It was a complete farce.

I thought he did well, a bit to aggressive but I can't blame him. Especially seeing Julian wouldn't answer questions.

[madmax]

At least Dion was opposing the Bloc Quebecois, as opposed to the NDP who were mimicking them.

The NDP kicked the BQs butt.. Something no party had been able to do successfully ever since the BQ formed after leaving the Progressive Conservatives of Brian Mulroney.

If I recall correctly The Conservatives share the "Quebec is a Nation" stance..

"Prime Minister Stephen Harper says he will introduce a motion recognizing that Quebecers form a nation..."

and I believe the NDP do as well.

The Liberals do Not.

That said..

I am very very very happy to see the BQ go...

But there are some on this forum that would love to restart the old battle and breath some life back into the smoldering ashes of the BQ.

I would rather see people throwing stones at the NDP..

THen having to deal with another 20 years of the BQ dominating Quebec.

[Newfoundlander]

Wont matter because the Bloc lost more then just public opinion in the last vote, they lost seats which means they lose resources, Harper took all their money away, and the organization is suffer we can see this in the PQ playing out right now. They might not even make it to the next election organization wise. They are the weakest they have ever been right now, and with policies that reflect what the NDP is pushing anyway it will be a much harder fight for them in the future. Let the NDP get a new leader, rally around them and then tell me about the polls seriously.

They managed to win a huge majority of the seats in 1993 after coming out of nowhere. And can you honestly say that the NDP were well organized in Quebec heading into the 2011 election?

[punked]

So if they brought in a national daycare system, or a gun registry they wouldn't impose it on provinces if they didn't want it, as well as allow them to explore alternative forms of health car delivery?

You know how a National Healthcare system was brought in right? It wasn't imposed on the provinces at all the Federal government said "listen we are willing to chip in if you willing to pay to". Each province accepted it on its own free will as the people of those provinces demanded it seeing it was a good idea. Right now many people are looking to Quebecs Daycare program and studying it saying "This is a model we might want to work toward". I sure with a push from the Feds some provinces would adopt it and as others saw the good it was doing they would debate it to.

It is a model the NDP has followed and brought up for discussion many times. You don't have to go to the provinces and say "It is my way or the high way" to get things done. In fact until the 1960-70s it has never been done that way.

[Newfoundlander]

THen having to deal with another 20 years of the BQ dominating Quebec.

If they can help in a referendum more power to them!

[madmax]

That's pretty selective. Under Chretien, the Liberals had almost as many seats and more votes than the Bloc.

Not selective at all

They are using DIONS numbers.. as DION is the Liberal stirring the pot.

As far as I remember the Liberals never the BQ in quebec ...

What is clear to me.. is Quebeckers wanted a change.. and many in political want it to go back to the Liberal/BQ divide.

I think the people Quebec wants to move away from Divisive politics..

Threads a lightening rod..

I think this is Dions end of days...

[Smallc]

That must be why Bouchard won one more seat in 1998 promising another referendum even before sponsorship broke right? Because Chrietien crushed separatism so much they gave the Separatist a majority government again. Smallc you are way off the mark on this one.

No, a poll, published in the NYT, in the year 2000, showed separatism at 25%. Even now, at 30%, it's still above that level. Also, again, Chretien did well in the popular vote in Quebec.

The success of the PQ had and will have more to do with a lack of credible alternatives.