123 replies to this topic

[Peeves]

Have you anything to support this idea? I had been taught that the British CHOSE to allow the French to preserve their culture and rights for Catholics!

That was part of the tolerance and wisdom of British governors of those times and leaders. Of course, there were some bigots like Lord Durham but the example of what those British leaders did for the French in Canada was totally unique for those times - an unheard of progressive act.

Referencing history, the French would prefer to be speaking German than English.

[Tilter]

One of the problems for the federal public service is it's absolutely full of utterly incompetent managers and executives who only got their job because the bilingualism requirement screened out more than 95% of those who would otherwise do the work.

There's an old adage of a guy who is drowning in a swimming pool, and calls out for help, but the government life guard on duty can't swim. When asked how he got the job he proudly sticks out his chest and says "I'm bilingual!"



That's idiotic. Why would someone who doesn't have any use for French go through the difficulties and expense of learning it? And then once you learn it if you don't have a regular use for it, if your neighbours don't speak it and you don't use it at work, then it fades away anyway. Pointless.



Most of the French are separated from my society anyway. They live in Quebec, a place I never go, and I have no interest in them, nor they in me. Why should I learn their language? Most of them don't even know how to read and write

or even speak their language properly.

And I'm upposed to learn it? Phhht.

[Tilter]

It means all those in leadership positions in the federal public service have to be fluently bilingual before any screening of their actual skills in leadership or job knowledge is even looked at. It means that lots of incompetent clowns get accepted and promoted because there is only a very small group of people capable of passing the language tests.

I take the phrase

fluently bilingual

with a grain of salt when it comes to the idea that they have to be fluent in English.

[Tilter]

You have that right. The level of 'enforcement' of bilingualism varies by region, as does the definition of bilingualism. Here in Manitoba, official recognition of both french and english was a condition of our joining confederation, yet we still are not federally designated as "Officially Bilingual" the way New Brunswick is.

The only way i can explain it, is we maintain bilingualism, but we don't enforce it. All govt services are in both languages, our stop signs say both STOP and ARRET, we learn french in school, etc. Despite all that, it's exceptionally rare to encounter people speaking french in a public setting. The neighbourhood I live in is "the" french quarter of the province, and in 20 yrs living here, I've only been addressed in french twice. Both of those were by recent immigrants (one from France, one from Africa).

Gee, I bet that's helpful to the (roughly)10% of the population, 95% of whom never get to read the many thousands of STOP signs in The Peg and couldn't care less about the "Arret"
If Winnipeg should have Bilingual signs the other language should be in Ukrainian.

[jbg]

If Winnipeg should have Bilingual signs the other language should be in Ukrainian.

Or Canadian.

[fellowtraveller]

Bilingualism is definitely an asset, but French would be well down the list as a preferred second language.
The primary language of business on our planet is unquestionably English. The future of Canada in foreign tongues lies in Mandarin, then Hindi. If you want your children to be federal civil servants, a case can be made for French.

[cybercoma]

Or Canadian.

Your joke is still lame.

[Peeves]

Even in France they have official agencies to protect their ridiculous complex language. And like Quebecers, they probably don't know how to use it properly either.

The natural purpose of language is communication. All through history as peoples merge, languages merge, and change and die. The English didn't used to speak English. There were separate peoples in Britain and they spoke separate languages. They merged, and now, other than a few holdouts ,they speak English. Yes, the Welsh are working very hard to keep their language, and there are some Celtic speakers in Scotland and Ireland, but again, this is government trying to resist the natural order of things to no purpose but cultural arrogance. Am I poorer now that I speak English rather than whatever my distant relatives spoke? I don't think so. French should die away. It should have died decades ago.

French may be je ne sais quoi desired
And Latin once was inspired
Ah but but English is required



There wasn't even an agreed on spelling or pronunciation in North America until early 1800 when Noah Webster put out a definitive dictionary which was used for conformity.


http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070228221211AAaJltX

[Peeves]

Your joke is still lame.

That's lamé s'il vous plaît.

[g_bambino]

That's lamé s'il vous plaît.

A fabric with metallic thread?

[Jack Weber]

A fabric with metallic thread?

Did'nt Sha Na Na wear gold lamé?

[-TSS-]

One must make that distintion in official bilingualism that it only guarantees that people have access to basic services in their own language. It doesn't have to mean that everyone in that country must know both languages. However, I guess that is how things are in Canada.

[capricorn]

It doesn't have to mean that everyone in that country must know both languages.

In terms of federal services to the public, there is a yardstick known as "where numbers warrant", i.e. where the second official language of the population is large enough that federal services must be proactively offered to them. That demand is determined and established through data collected in the census. Consequently, the federal government will allocate resources (i.e. staff, translation and work instruments)to give effect to that legislated obligation.

If that isn't complicated enough, there's also something called "language of work rights" where employees have an expectation to be able to work in the language of their choice. That is also a legislated provision.

Good luck trying to understand how bilingualism works in Canada. I've worked on both sides of the issue for many years; as a public service manager and as a union representative. I would describe it as trying to make your way through a maze.

[Bryan]

Gee, I bet that's helpful to the (roughly)10% of the population, 95% of whom never get to read the many thousands of STOP signs in The Peg and couldn't care less about the "Arret"

It's particularly absurd when you consider that stop signs in France just say "STOP".

If Winnipeg should have Bilingual signs the other language should be in Ukrainian.

Or Tagalog, or Plattdüütsch.

The future of Canada in foreign tongues lies in Mandarin, then Hindi.

Add Portuguese and Russian to that to cover the BRIC countries. Spanish if ALBA becomes a major trading block.

[-TSS-]

For English-speakers French must be the easiest foreign language to learn as about half of the vocabulary is similar to English. I have never studied French, so my knowledge of it is rather limited but I have studied German and I have met people who have studied both languages and they say French is a piece of cake compared to German. Well, that's what they say. I can't comment on that as I don't know French but I know German and in German sometimes forming sentences with sub-clauses is like solving mathematical equations.

As for Finland, our geographic proximity to Russia may make many people believe that we in Finland are generally well-versed in Russian. Many people are taken by surprise when they learn that actually very few Finns can speak Russian to any degree at all.

The ability to speak Russian is very rare in this country and that's a shame because we really are losing a lot of business because of that.