123 replies to this topic

[The_Squid]

In BC you do not need to speak French to have a Federal Government job.

Finland is way ahead of Canada in terms of education, and a lot of this has to do with teaching children to be fluent in several languages. In Canada, we have two official languages, but rarely are they both taught. The smart parents send their kids to French immersion schools.

Edited by The_Squid, 27 March 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[jbg]

So a culture intrinsically linked to it's language is simply not one you deem "worthy to survive". I get it.

I have nothing against any culture or language surviving. But on the dime of other cultures?

[-TSS-]

In Ireland Irish was still the majority language until mid-19th century when there was a widespread famine which either led to the death or emigration of vast proportion of the population. Some Irish people say that the famine was orcestrated by the British but there is unanimity that that is a bit of an exaggeration but the English did not care about the blight of the Irish who were heavily dependant on one crop, potato, as the landed gentry took the best farmlands. While people were perishing in their thousands a lot of food was exported from Ireland.

The noteworthy thing is that at the time Ireland was an integral part of the UK, not a colony or a dominion. However, the great famine was a devastating blow to the Irish language which to our day is still being tried to be revived but there really are not any monoglot Irish speakers anywhere.

[Newfoundlander]

And what is the basis for your statement? I've worked in the federal public service in Ottawa for almost fifteen years now, while most of my relatives and friends over the years have worked there as well, in a wide variety of departments and agencies. You?

We have a newly appointed Auditor General, one of the most important bureaucratic positions in Canada, who is not bilingual. I have a number of family members in both St. John's and Ottawa who are federal government employees and none of them speak a bit of French.

[capricorn]

I have a number of family members in both St. John's and Ottawa who are federal government employees and none of them speak a bit of French.

Not all federal jobs are designated bilingual. There are government jobs designated English essential so knowledge of French is not a requirement to hold the position. But once an employee reaches the supervisory or managerial level, even if there is only one employee on staff whose mother language is French, language of work rights dictate that the supervisor's or manager's position be designated bilingual. The same principle applies in reverse to federal institutions in Quebec where the predominent language of work is French.

[Vineon]

I have nothing against any culture or language surviving. But on the dime of other cultures?

"on the dime"

I'm too French for this one; not even urban dictionary could help me there.

I'm guessing it either meant "at the detriment of other cultures" or "paid by other cultures".

Assuming the first, I would disagree that French Québec endangers the cultural hegemony that is American/Canadian English (and who would even claim that), the culture to which it is in direct competition in Québec... unless someone can convince me that English Québec should be thought of as a distinct people. They don't show any sign that they believe so themselves.

If you really "have nothing against cultures or languages surviving", then you must understand that they do necessarily by resisting being annexed to another one competing with it. In the end, always "on the dime" of another culture/language.

So do you still have nothing against cultures and languages surviving? I don't buy it.

Edited by Vineon, 28 March 2012 - 09:37 AM.

[Argus]

So a culture intrinsically linked to it's language is simply not one you deem "worthy to survive". I get it.

Fine then. If all you've got that's a 'culture' consists of grammar then you ain't got much.

[Argus]

They rather kill the others. Cultural genocides. Banning other languages. All those old fashion tiny attentions the empire took good care to apply like if it was to please mom.

Empires behave as empires behave. I certainly realize the English - and please note, I'm not English - did their best to discourage local nationalism through a variety of means which could and did sometimes include the banning of local religions, music, language, etc. But that had nothing to do with any thoughts of preserving their language from change.

Are you trying to pretend the Irish choosed english over their own language by their own will?

What I said was that regardless of what language they speak the Irish have retained their culture. But then, maybe their culture was actually strong enough to withstand the changing of its language, whereas the French culture is simply too weak.

Argus, what's next? All the cows dream to become a tasty burger because it is the natural course. You should take your medic. Schysophrenia can be controlled with the proper dosage.

That's sometimes true. Unfortunately, there's no pill for stupid.

[Argus]

We have a newly appointed Auditor General, one of the most important bureaucratic positions in Canada, who is not bilingual. I have a number of family members in both St. John's and Ottawa who are federal government employees and none of them speak a bit of French.

The AG would not be able to find work as a clerk if he applied. He's not a member of the public service. As for St. John's, there are local offices there which don't require French, but the power is in Ottawa. And you can't access it without being bilingual.

[Argus]

Not all federal jobs are designated bilingual. There are government jobs designated English essential so knowledge of French is not a requirement to hold the position. But once an employee reaches the supervisory or managerial level, even if there is only one employee on staff whose mother language is French, language of work rights dictate that the supervisor's or manager's position be designated bilingual. The same principle applies in reverse to federal institutions in Quebec where the predominent language of work is French.

In Ottawa, which is where the power is, more than 60% of all positions are designated bilingual, including virtually all management and executive positions.

[Vineon]

Fine then. If all you've got that's a 'culture' consists of grammar then you ain't got much.

I wish you were trolling but you are probably simply clueless.

That a culture is intrinsically tied to it's language doesn't mean that the language is the sole difference but that the language is the root of the differences.

A different language means a whole different set of cultural references. The best example of this would be Québec's own star system which spawns music, tv shows, comedians and movies that are it's own. In large, there is no comparison to make between the interest the Québécois have their home grown cultural products versus the interest Canada has for it's own. Québécois care, Canadians do not. Québécois watch their shows and they watch their movies while Canadians have no interest in their own. It does not mean that Canadians cannot appreciate their local talents, it simply means they will not appreciate them simply because they are Canadians. The reason for that is fairly simple : Canadians and Americans are culturally interchangeable and nobody manages to notice a difference. A Canadian cultural product has therefore no added value to Canadians.

Edited by Vineon, 29 March 2012 - 12:57 AM.

[Tilter]

In BC you do not need to speak French to have a Federal Government job.

Finland is way ahead of Canada in terms of education, and a lot of this has to do with teaching children to be fluent in several languages. In Canada, we have two official languages, but rarely are they both taught. The smart parents send their kids to French immersion schools.

In BC you do not need to speak French to have a Federal Government job.

but try to get a federal govt job ANYWHERE in Canada knowing only English--- good luck with that.

[Smallc]

but try to get a federal govt job ANYWHERE in Canada knowing only English--- good luck with that.

You can get plenty of federal government jobs without knowing French. You're misinformed.

[Peeves]

On the other hand, all politicians should be considered cunning and lingual or at least cunnilingual.

[Tilter]

On the other hand, all politicians should be considered cunning and lingual or at least cunnilingual.

only if they are male.