164 replies to this topic

[Smallc]

You say that was all in the past but it isn't.

But it is in the past in that everyone has to deal with it.

[Wilber]

But it is in the past in that everyone has to deal with it.

You can't make yourself trust someone. Either you do or you don't.

[Smallc]

You can't make yourself trust someone. Either you do or you don't.

And that's fine, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Edited by Smallc, 13 April 2012 - 05:55 PM.

[Wilber]

And that's fine, but it doesn't change the reality of your situation.

The company is in trouble, few would dispute that but the problem with not trusting someone is you never really know what reality is. That is a huge problem and it is managements doing.


BTW, it's not my situation.

[Smallc]

BTW, it's not my situation.

I'm not sure how I typed that, tbh.

[Jack Weber]

Because Trades aren't valued very much in High Schools.

It's one of my great laments that I wasn't told in my teenage days that these careers would be recession proof. Now I stand here in my early 30's in an industry that I probably won't be able to stay in in the next few years.

Depressing.

The trades aren't recession proof???

I beg to differ...

[Jack Weber]

Unions cannot exist without government protection therefore they really have no right to complain when the government restricts the actions they are allowed to take. They still have the right to bargain - just not the right to disrupt the lives of thousands of innocent people.

So you would prefer "corporate protection" under some form of "made in Canada" Right to Work legislation?

Are you suggesting that Air Canada is an "Essential Service"?

And how would unionized employee's collectively bargain if,as you claim,they don't have the right to disrupt the lives of thousands of innocent people?

Would you propose some sort of binding arbitration in the event of a negotiation impasse?

Do you really want to go there?

[Jack Weber]

Companies don't go bust because of their employees. The pilots could take a 50% cut and it wouldn't save the company. Pilots took cuts in wages and benefits of around 25% during CCAA and haven't had a raise since. The employee groups gave the company relief from its pension obligations till 2014. Compare that to executive compensation. They then watched ACE sell off billions worth of the companies most profitable assets, distribute the proceeds to its own shareholders and bail. That is the biggest reason Air Canada is where it is today.

Great spin for the company though. Blame the pilots. Perfect when government is also willing to do its dirty work for them.

Truth be known, there is always some scheduled flying that isn't crewed and can't be covered by available reserves. The company relies on what amounts to overtime to get it done either by pilots asking for extra flying or by drafting. All the pilots would have to do as a group is not request extra flying and not answer the phone. They wouldn't have to phone in sick. There is something about pilots though that doesn't make them effective unionists and companies are quick to exploit it.

Spot on...

[Smallc]

So the IRB said this was illegal, according to the reporter on the National.

[Smallc]

Also on the National, Air Canada has cut $500M in expenses this year alone.

[Jack Weber]

So the IRB said this was illegal, according to the reporter on the National.

It's only illegal if they cannot produce doctors notes saying they were sick...

If they can't,the pilots have essentially engaged in a wildcat...

[Jack Weber]

Also on the National, Air Canada has cut $500M in expenses this year alone.

The Dominatrix of Labour...Er...Minister of Labour must be grinning with interventionist glee...

Edited by Jack Weber, 13 April 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[cybercoma]

Conservatives believe in a free-market. Unless it's the labour market. Then they believe in monopolies and interventionism.

[Smallc]

Conservatives believe in a free-market. Unless it's the labour market. Then they believe in monopolies and interventionism.

I'm actually puzzled by all of it. Free Air Canada from at least parts of the Air Canada act, and open up the sky. Canada and the US should be like Europe for air travel within NA.

[Wilber]

One labour professor's take on this. I won't comment on it or its links.

Prof David Doorey