419 replies to this topic

[stopstaaron]

yo Derek, you know where the border is, if you want to live where everyone is armed, you know where to go

[Derek L]

idc, you can't give your own examples of you and your family being responsible and then assuming the rest of the population is responsible enough to handle a gun let alone handle it in public

Hence gun safety courses and clubs…….And the current requirements and amendments required to Canadian laws and the obtaining of the ATC permit.

[cybercoma]

Yeah. I'm sure all those gun safety courses are going to make high school kids responsible enough to carry firearms to class.

[Derek L]

yo Derek, you know where the border is, if you want to live where everyone is armed, you know where to go

I don't care if everyone is armed......

[Derek L]

Yeah. I'm sure all those gun safety courses are going to make high school kids responsible enough to carry firearms to class.

Clearly, there are already age restrictions on obtaining and transporting restricted firearms……..With that said, we can already legally arm 17 year olds (16 with parents permission), and with the right conditions, even allow them to kill other people……What’s the difference?

[dre]

FacePalm

[Derek L]

FacePalm

Why? What is the difference between a 17 year old in the military, shooting gophers on the farm or hunting out in the bush? Does this translate into said 17 year old going on a shooting spree at their high school if they were armed?

[dre]

Why? What is the difference between a 17 year old in the military, shooting gophers on the farm or hunting out in the bush? Does this translate into said 17 year old going on a shooting spree at their high school if they were armed?

Well just think it through... theres lots of differences. The kid on the farm is in an isolated environment. The kid in the military is in a rigidly controlled environment. Both those things are a far cry from the idea of every child at school having a gun, or whatever this moron said.

All you would see as a result of that is an increase in the number of school shootings, a huge increase in the number of accidents, and most Canadians pulling their kids out of public schools.

I didnt mean to target you personally with that "facepalm" btw. It for the whole thread and the idiot in the OP.

[August1991]

Red meat! Get your red meat here! (Or should I sell instead: Tofu! Get your fresh Tofu here!)

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Key quote from NP article in OP:

“(Breitkreuz) told a classroom of Ottawa high school students — some as young as 14 — that all Canadians should carry firearms, and girls in particular should be armed to protect themselves from sexual assault,” she said.

Is that what he (Breitkreuz) really said and is that the way he said it? Is that what he meant? We only have an indirect quote from a NP journalist - likely trying to make a name for herself.

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In the past, Canada was divided by religion. Nowadays, Canada is divided by language. Apparently, Canada in the future will be divided by urban/rural.

Of course, there are good Catholics and good Protestant "sects". There are some good French people and even some good English people. No doubt, there are good urban people and good rural people too. But rural Albertans and urban people in Ontario think differently, and speak differently. It's like two different religions, or languages.

Edited by August1991, 29 March 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[Derek L]

Well just think it through... theres lots of differences. The kid on the farm is in an isolated environment. The kid in the military is in a rigidly controlled environment. Both those things are a far cry from the idea of every child at school having a gun, or whatever this moron said.

All you would see as a result of that is an increase in the number of school shootings, a huge increase in the number of accidents, and most Canadians pulling their kids out of public schools.

I didnt mean to target you personally with that "facepalm" btw. It for the whole thread and the idiot in the OP.

Obviously maturity level is not a constant amongst teenagers, young adults and “old farts like me”………I can think of many people, of all ages, that shouldn’t own firearms due to a myriad of reasons, namely mental capacity. Just as those that have a mentality of fearing a piece of metal, wood and polymer, would probably be best served by being unarmed and being protected by others, clearly those fearful of a tool that can be used to take another’s life, shouldn’t be put in a situation where their irrational judgement is paramount.

But the above examples I listed of a 17 year old, are clearly instances in which the teenager has demonstrated his or her maturity, hence them being given a firearms by another.


That said, the Tory MP in the OP is being unfairly judged in my view (Granted, I’ve only seen the text quoted in the OP), in that he opined that Canadians (notice not age specific) should be armed…….If a Canadian can obtain a firearm’s licence, with all necessary prerequisites, from the RCMP and be trusted to keep said firearm at home, what is the difference if they have one in the glove box of their car or in their purse?

The police and military are trusted with firearms after taking safety courses by society, why doesn’t society trust itself? Criminals obtain and use guns illegally, why can’t the average Canadian do so, after meeting a set criteria, legally?


If you, and I don’t mean to “pick on you” dre, had a firearm in a safe in the closet at home or in your glove box, do you not trust yourself to do “the right thing”?

Edited by Derek L, 29 March 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[dre]

Obviously maturity level is not a constant amongst teenagers, young adults and “old farts like me”………I can think of many people, of all ages, that shouldn’t own firearms due to a myriad of reasons, namely mental capacity. Just as those that have a mentality of fearing a piece of metal, wood and polymer, would probably be best served by being unarmed and being protected by others, clearly those fearful of a tool that can be used to take another’s life, shouldn’t be put in a situation where their irrational judgement is paramount.

But the above examples I listed of a 17 year old, are clearly instances in which the teenager has demonstrated his or her maturity, hence them being given a firearms by another.


That said, the Tory MP in the OP is being unfairly judged in my view (Granted, I’ve only seen the text quoted in the OP), in that he opined that Canadians (notice not age specific) should be armed…….If a Canadian can obtain a firearm’s licence, with all necessary prerequisites, from the RCMP and be trusted to keep said firearm at home, what is the difference if they have one in the glove box of their car or in their purse?

The police and military are trusted with firearms after taking safety courses by society, why doesn’t society trust itself? Criminals obtain and use guns illegally, why can’t the average Canadian do so, after meeting a set criteria, legally?


If you, and I don’t mean to “pick on you” dre, had a firearm in a safe in the closet at home or in your glove box, do you not trust yourself to do “the right thing”?

My guns are in a steel cabinet. And yeah, I trust myself to "do the right thing". But I dont trust school kids to carry around loaded weapons at school. It would mean more shootings and more accidents. That doesnt seem like a result to strive for.

But the above examples I listed of a 17 year old, are clearly instances in which the teenager has demonstrated his or her maturity, hence them being given a firearms by another.

I dont think we are on the same page here. You are pointing out that some children can responsibly use firearms. Thats undeniably true.

But I focused in on the idea of ALL 17 yearolds being armed. I just think thats a bad idea.

I think the laws we have now are pretty good. Its not tough to obtain and use guns in this country, and the rules seem pretty reasonable.

[stopstaaron]

Why didn't he just say all women should carry mase or pepper spray on them?
Or take self defense classes?! No, he had to go right for guns

[stopstaaron]

btw Derek, I don't like guns and I don't need someone with guns to protect me like you said
There are plenty of weapons one could use instead of a gun

[Derek L]

My guns are in a steel cabinet. And yeah, I trust myself to "do the right thing". But I dont trust school kids to carry around loaded weapons at school. It would mean more shootings and more accidents. That doesnt seem like a result to strive for.

Good for you dre!!!! But that’s the chicken and egg debate we’re having………Clearly some teens can be trusted, and would have no problem meeting required prerequisites, those that can’t, can play Nintendo…..

I dont think we are on the same page here. You are pointing out that some children can responsibly use firearms. Thats undeniably true.

But I focused in on the idea of ALL 17 yearolds being armed. I just think thats a bad idea.

I think the laws we have now are pretty good. Its not tough to obtain and use guns in this country, and the rules seem pretty reasonable.

I think we’re on the same page, just different t paragraphs………….I agree, there are not only teens, but many adults that shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a loaded firearm……..I don’t contest that…….But if we define a prior requirement, like the PAL/RPAL, that will preclude the turnips, those that desire and “meet the grade” should be allowed to remove the Government ordained Huggies pull-ups……..

I have no problem with licensing nor storage laws (other then the lack of precise definition in the law) but I feel there would be a place, as outlined above, for the ability of the individual to obtain an ATC…….Make even more hoops to jump through……require a month long night schooling safety course, that not only includes gun safety and the laws, but peaceful conflict resolution techniques also………But the individual should have the inherent ability to protect themselves, their families and property and not rely solely on the state.

[dre]

Good for you dre!!!! But that’s the chicken and egg debate we’re having………Clearly some teens can be trusted, and would have no problem meeting required prerequisites, those that can’t, can play Nintendo…..



I think we’re on the same page, just different t paragraphs………….I agree, there are not only teens, but many adults that shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a loaded firearm……..I don’t contest that…….But if we define a prior requirement, like the PAL/RPAL, that will preclude the turnips, those that desire and “meet the grade” should be allowed to remove the Government ordained Huggies pull-ups……..

I have no problem with licensing nor storage laws (other then the lack of precise definition in the law) but I feel there would be a place, as outlined above, for the ability of the individual to obtain an ATC…….Make even more hoops to jump through……require a month long night schooling safety course, that not only includes gun safety and the laws, but peaceful conflict resolution techniques also………But the individual should have the inherent ability to protect themselves, their families and property and not rely solely on the state.

But the individual should have the inherent ability to protect themselves, their families and property and not rely solely on the state.

Yeah I cant relate to that I guess. My guns are for hunting and fun. If I lived in a place where I was so afraid that I felt I needed to carry a gun around all day, I would go and live somewhere else.

If you even GET to the point where people are afraid to go out in public without firearms, then you have some serious problems that WONT be fixed by gun ownership.