101 replies to this topic

[American Woman]

As I said, I agree that it party accounts for it, but not fully. As I said, there are other reasons as well. What percentage of Canada's population is suppose to be black?

It's not a matter of what the percentage "should" be, it's a matter of why it was so low. I think you already knew that though, and thus your rather ridiculous question.

Emphasis mine:

Racism against Blacks in Canada has existed at both the individual and institutional level has been reflected in restrictive immigration policies and practices against nonwhite immigrants(10). The Black population in Canada did not grow to a substantial number until the 1960's when changes in the Immigration Act removed a bias against nonwhite immigrants and permitted large numbers of West Indians and Africans to enter Canada. Between 1950 and 1995 there were abut 300,000 immigrants from the West Indies and over 150,000 from Africa, including people of Asian and European descent(11)

It was the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, led by Martin Luther King Jr., that encouraged the passage of civil rights legislation prohibiting discrimination for reason of colour, race, religion or national origin in the United States. The American civil rights movement bolstered Black Canadians' self-confidence and pride in themselves that led greater social inclusion and opportunity(12). Over the past twenty-five years in particular, provincial and federal governments have implemented multicultural and human rights legislation and policies(13). Link

Do you think it was merely coincidence that the Black population grew in Canada at the same time there were changes in Canada's racist immigration policy?

[Shady]

It's not a matter of what the percentage "should" be, it's a matter of why it was so low.

Well, by characterizing it as ONLY 2% or that it's SO low, you imply that it should be greater. I was just wondering what percentage you think it should have been?

Do you think it was merely coincidence that the Black population grew in Canada at the same time there were changes in Canada's racist immigration policy?

Like I've already said, it was due to immigration policy, as well as other factors. Regardless, American immigration policy was similar up to 1965. The reason why the black percentage of the American population was a lot higher than 2% wasn't because of differing immigration policy.

[Manny]

What about rants like this?



Certainly it's hateful, but is it intentionally inciting hatred? Probably not ...

Way I see it, the OP misses the mark. And so do those who criticize multiculturalism per se. The problem that's evolved is not due to the importation of a variety of races, it's due to the importation of large numbers of people who are poor and uneducated into the system. If the immigrants who come here are good quality welders, carpenters, electricians, pipe fitters...

But despite that I doubt the problem is as large as some people make it out to be. For most it's simple race hatred looking for a reason, nothing more.

Edited by Manny, 17 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Jack Weber]

Way I see it, the OP misses the mark. And so do those who criticize multiculturalism per se. The problem that's evolved is not due to the importation of a variety of races, it's due to the importation of large numbers of people who are poor and uneducated into the system. If the immigrants who come here are good quality welders, carpenters, electricians, pipe fitters...

But despite that I doubt the problem is as large as some people make it out to be. For most it's simple race hatred looking for a reason, nothing more.

I think you're on to something here...

I'm a tradesperson,and I can tell you that MOST (most definately not all) recent immigrants coming into my trade are barely above the level of a 1st year apprentice.That's not to say we should adjust things to allow someone like that the OPPORTUNITY to widen their skill set in any specific trade,because we should!

Having said that,I also agree eith you that alot of this is simply convenient cover for those who would like to limit immigration based on race...

Edited by Jack Weber, 17 April 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[cybercoma]

You think Blacks immigrated to America because they already had family members here? - You think the slaves kept in touch with the folks back home and generations later family members wanted to immigrate to America to be reunited?

Many thousands of black people living in Canada returned to the United States after emancipation.

[cybercoma]

This isn't about America's racist past; the U.S.'s racial problems were out there for the world to see. It's about the denial that Canadians have about Canada's racist past. Canada is thought to be - and presents itself as - so tolerant, the land that saved the runaway slaves as America treated them badly. But Canada wasn't all that; Canada didn't want the freed slaves who wanted to move to Canada, for example, and apparently some Canadians are in denial - Canadians who have no problem seeing things they way they are (or in lots of cases even worse) when it comes the U.S. The facts speak for themselves, and Canada did have a racist immigration policy - even as the U.S. was/is criticized for its racist past - and it accounts for Canada's practically non-existent Black population, as late as 1971 - after the Civil Rights Act. Blacks still only account for 2% of Canada's population.

You're jumping between various time periods with their own policies and politics, so it's difficult to really follow what you're arguing.

Is there a myth about Canada being the land of freedom for blacks and escaped slaves? Yes.
Does Canada have a racist past that most Canadians are largely unaware of? Yes.

Having said that, however, blacks that made their way to Canada arguably had a better life. They had their freedom, even if they were left to their own devices for survival and not accepted into white communities. It depends on where and when they settled though. Larger communities like Toronto were better places to settle and more open to blacks, likely because they could find others like themselves and form communities within the community. As tough as life was here for them, they still had their freedom. That's an earlier historical period relating to your point about escaped, freed, and runaway slaves. Life here, as you note, wasn't all roses though. After emancipation many thousands of blacks returned to America. Trying to survive off the land and farm in the frozen north would have been a hell of a lot different experience than working the land in the Chesapeake region or Georgia. So it's not entirely that they were treated poorly, although they absolutely were.

Long-story short, it's a complicated past that most Canadians are unaware of and it's not as simple as saying, "Canada was just as bad as the US," because that's not true either.

[dre]

never mind...

Edited by dre, 17 April 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Long-story short, it's a complicated past that most Canadians are unaware of and it's not as simple as saying, "Canada was just as bad as the US," because that's not true either.

It's not that complicated, and as usual the foundation for such "racist policies" can be found in economics. Canada simply lacked the opportunity or need for the much wider scope of labor and labor diversity seen in America. Canada had slavery too but no great planter class to foster growth, regardless of abolition in British colonies. Frankly, much of Canada was undeveloped and dirt poor. When labor needs required, Chinese "Coolies" were imported despite deep "racial" animosity.

That is the reason I often cite 312,00,000 vs. 34,000,000. There was always more opportunity in the US, even for emancipated slaves. Slaves were not "immigrants".

As ex-slaves in 1865, you could get your 40 acres and a mule in the USA, or get nothing and freeze your ass off in Canada's interior.

[Manny]

As ex-slaves in 1865, you could get your 40 acres and a mule in the USA, or get nothing and freeze your ass off in Canada's interior.

How many actually got that, and were able to keep it? I'm not aware of a large number of wealthy black land-owners.

[dre]

It's not that complicated, and as usual the foundation for such "racist policies" can be found in economics. Canada simply lacked the opportunity or need for the much wider scope of labor and labor diversity seen in America. Canada had slavery too but no great planter class to foster growth, regardless of abolition in British colonies. Frankly, much of Canada was undeveloped and dirt poor. When labor needs required, Chinese "Coolies" were imported despite deep "racial" animosity.

That is the reason I often cite 312,00,000 vs. 34,000,000. There was always more opportunity in the US, even for emancipated slaves. Slaves were not "immigrants".

As ex-slaves in 1865, you could get your 40 acres and a mule in the USA, or get nothing and freeze your ass off in Canada's interior.

Yes I already mentioned that. The ammount of immigrants Canada has let in or deported at any given time generally has been proportionate to the employment rate. This is illustrated by the various PARTIAL bans, like "no asiatics except for farm workers and female nannies".

And thats still what drives immigration today... economics. If we want to enjoy the live style that comes with being a growth economy, then its gonna be real tough to do that with a nation full of privileged "crackers" that dont phuck without birth control... so we let in the right ammount of immigrants to keep economic growth around 2-3% which is statistically enough to prevent the parasitic banking system from going tits up. The government has pretty much no other choice.

As ex-slaves in 1865, you could get your 40 acres and a mule in the USA, or get nothing and freeze your ass off in Canada's interior.

Not only that but a lot of the US is geographically similar to subsaharan africa so they felt right at home. I imagine many of them hardly even noticed the difference accept that their white masters now had a dopey southern drawl instead of british accents

Edited by dre, 17 April 2012 - 05:26 PM.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Not only that but a lot of the US is geographically similar to subsaharan africa so they felt right at home. I imagine many of them hardly even noticed the difference accept that their white masters now had a dopey southern drawl instead of british accents

Go back and study some geography to see just how silly that comment is.

[Manny]

Go back and study some geography to see just how silly that comment is.

Not only that, I heard that the "dopey southern drawl" actually came from the blacks.
??

[bush_cheney2004]

Not only that, I heard that the "dopey southern drawl" actually came from the blacks.
??

Not unless the "blacks" came from England, Ireland, and Scotland.

[cybercoma]

Go back and study some geography to see just how silly that comment is.

It's not really that silly. The Chesapeake couldn't get labour from England because people were afraid of dropping dead from the heat and malaria there. Many blacks from West and West-Central Africa had already built up an immunity to malaria and were certainly used to the heat. In fact, the idea that the black body was naturally accustomed to the climate was used to justify slavery. 'Geographically' it's further north, but environmentally and ecologically it's not that silly.

Edited by cybercoma, 17 April 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[Manny]

Not unless the "blacks" came from England, Ireland, and Scotland.

Well, I think I read that the African slaves learned to communicate with their masters in English and that is how they bent the words and introduced some of the unique expressions. This was then picked up by the children of the slave owners.