3900 replies to this topic

[DogOnPorch]

Thats why many nations are already making plans to shrink military spending, and you are going to see much deeper cuts in both defense and social spending over the next 20 years.

Really? Which countries?

[dre]

Really? Which countries?

2/3's of Europe, and the United States for starters. More than 18 European countries have cut military spending by more than 10%.

http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/resultoutput/trends

In Europe, especially Western & Central Europe, most countries have been imposing austerity measures to reduce their budget deficits, with heavy cuts in public expenditure, usually including military expenditure. Since 2008, two thirds of countries in Europe have cut military spending, although the rates of cuts have varied considerably. Some of the largest cuts have been in Central Europe, where the generally weaker economies have been unable to sustain such large budget deficits. Eighteen European countries have seen real-terms falls of more than 10% in military spending since 2008, of which 13 are from Central Europe. Eight of these have made cuts of greater than 20%, with all but one from Central Europe. The largest fall has been in Latvia, by 51%. In Western Europe, the largest falls have generally been in countries facing acute debt crises: Greece (26%), Spain (18%), Italy (16%), and Ireland (11%), as well as Belgium (12%).

US military spending in 2011 amounted to $711 billion, a nominal increase on 2010 ($698 billion), but a fall of 1.2% in real terms - the first such fall since 1998.

And this is just the beginning.

[DogOnPorch]

2/3's of Europe, and the United States for starters. More than 18 European countries have cut military spending by more than 10%.

http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/resultoutput/trends







And this is just the beginning.

Ah so, according to you, our weak-ass Allies are going to get even weaker, so we should too. Sounds like a plan. How about the Red Chinese? Any plans on their end to become hippies like the Europeans? How about Russia? The MiG plant is closing, I'm guessing?

[dre]

Ah so, according to you, our weak-ass Allies are going to get even weaker, so we should too. Sounds like a plan. How about the Red Chinese? Any plans on their end to become hippies like the Europeans? How about Russia? The MiG plant is closing, I'm guessing?

Im not saying what we should or shouldnt do. Im talking about the fiscal realty faced by the western world. Our government cannot even afford to pay its own employees without borrowing from foreigners.

[DogOnPorch]

Im not saying what we should or shouldnt do. Im talking about the fiscal realty faced by the western world. Our government cannot even afford to pay its own employees without borrowing from foreigners.

Then your 'government' is too big.

[Derek L]

blame it on..... an unknown bureaucrat!

Harper Conservatives "officially" backtrack on F-35 purchase

Well there we go, all is right again in the world, said “unnamed” bureaucrat will be punished, the Harper regime Government will shift the process to public works, the Auditor General will get to speak later this week to the members of the Public Accounts Committee and then we’ll buy the F-35.………Easy-Peasy


I wonder though why the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada is worried, since as mentioned by numerous members and supporters of the Opposition, if we don’t purchase the F-35, we can still get the pork laden contracts……..Are their fears unfounded? If so, why does the LPC & NDP not support the men and women working in Canada’s aerospace industry?

Edited by Derek L, 25 April 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[dre]

Then your 'government' is too big.

Yes, and expanding its security arm would grow it more, and offers no ROI whatsoever.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, and expanding its security arm would grow it more, and offers no ROI whatsoever.

I'm sure there are many like yourself that want to see Canada's military either disbanded or simply allowed to rust away. But, the unfortunate news for you is that America will not protect us if we don't put in some effort.

[cybercoma]

This guy has some serious credentials and says the F35 is a terrible idea. I haven't said much on the planes themselves, as I focused on the gov handling of it, but this article doesn't make these jets sound like a good plan. http://www.theprovin..._medium=twitter

[Derek L]

This guy has some serious credentials and says the F35 is a terrible idea. I haven't said much on the planes themselves, as I focused on the gov handling of it, but this article doesn't make these jets sound like a good plan. http://www.theprovin..._medium=twitter

Colonel Maillet retired in '01....Colonel Maillet.......Now it's doesn't mention the exact date, but the X-35 had only won the JSF Competition that year………So I fail to see how the Colonel would have any “inside information” pertaining to the program………….As for his opinion on the suitability of a “single engine aircraft in the arctic”, well I’d suggest he explains the service of the F-16 (single engine) used by both the Americans and Norwegians for over 30 years up North……The Norwegians themselves, base over 2/3rds their fleet within the Arctic circle……As for “range”, as mentioned by smallc, the F-35 carries more internal then our current Hornet carriers with external drop tanks…………

[punked]

Well there we go, all is right again in the world, said “unnamed” bureaucrat will be punished, the Harper regime Government will shift the process to public works, the Auditor General will get to speak later this week to the members of the Public Accounts Committee and then we’ll buy the F-35.………Easy-Peasy


I wonder though why the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada is worried, since as mentioned by numerous members and supporters of the Opposition, if we don’t purchase the F-35, we can still get the pork laden contracts……..Are their fears unfounded? If so, why does the LPC & NDP not support the men and women working in Canada’s aerospace industry?

Gee I don't know why the Aerospace industry would be worried when one large part of very expensive project feel through maybe they are worried Canada would be the first domino to fall? They already have less orders then they thought they would.

[dre]

I'm sure there are many like yourself that want to see Canada's military either disbanded or simply allowed to rust away. But, the unfortunate news for you is that America will not protect us if we don't put in some effort.

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

[CPCFTW]

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

Who will be borrowing anything? The budget projects a surplus by 2015-2016... will we have paid anything for the F35s by then?

We already did all of our borrowing for real socialism, and what did we get from it? A bunch of artsy hipsters in Montreal demanding to borrow more so they don't have to work/pay for their boutique degree.

We are for the most part focusing on paying back the foreigners at this time but our progress has been delayed by the recession.

Speaking of foreigners.. it would be nice to have some modern jet fighters in the event that the foreigners get upset about Westerners defaulting on their debt, and come looking to bust some kneecaps.

Edited by CPCFTW, 25 April 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[DogOnPorch]

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

Indeed. Rusting away it is.

Re: Global Policing.
1] What happened the last two times America (and its Allies) decided it wasn't playing world policeman? Trick question.

2]Do you expect America (and its Allies other than Canada) to both solve and stay out of conflicts at the same time? This while enjoying the benefits of of said world policing?

3]Or perhaps it is that you believe in the ultimate goodwill of humans towards other humans in this Age of Aquarius? That is...the days of Canada having enemies are now over so less than the best will do?

Edited by DogOnPorch, 26 April 2012 - 12:36 AM.

[dre]

Indeed. Rusting away it is.

Re: Global Policing.
1] What happened the last two times America (and its Allies) decided it wasn't playing world policeman? Trick question.

2]Do you expect America (and its Allies other than Canada) to both solve and stay out of conflicts at the same time? This while enjoying the benefits of of said world policing?

3]Or perhaps it is that you believe in the ultimate goodwill of humans towards other humans in this Age of Aquarius? That is...the days of Canada having enemies are now over so less than the best will do?

Re: Global Policing.
1] What happened the last two times America (and its Allies) decided it wasn't playing world policeman? Trick question.

The most recent time is Syria, so far. The last one before that was probably Russia / Georgia. Many would present a case for military involvement in both cases.

2]Do you expect America (and its Allies other than Canada) to both solve and stay out of conflicts at the same time? This while enjoying the benefits of of said world policing?

Not really. I expect nation states to act in their own interests, and various different "coalitions" doing various things at various times. If Canada has a direct interest in a certain foreign policy then we should participate. Otherwise we should only participate in extreme cases.

Or perhaps it is that you believe in the ultimate goodwill of humans towards other humans in this Age of Aquarius? That is...the days of Canada having enemies are now over so less than the best will do?

Hey... who believes in the good will of humans? Youre the one saying that I should pay taxes that go towards fixing other peoples problems. Id rather pay down my mortgage with that money, unless a direct threat emerges.