82 replies to this topic

[Argus]

I pretty much agree with the above. Luckily, we have the Charter and the SCC/courts to keep the CPC in check if any of their legislation is deemed unconstitutional. Hopefully the courts decide these matters fairly,

But if they choose not to, there's not a thing you can do about it.

[cybercoma]

Personally, I think the best way to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the Charter is to burn it. It's been an enormous albatross around this country's neck for decades

It's funny you feel that way when it's looked at as the template for democracy around the world.

[Argus]

It's funny you feel that way when it's looked at as the template for democracy around the world.

Not actually true.

[cybercoma]

Not actually true.

Thirty years after Canada "brought home" its Constitution from Brit-ain and controversially enshrined the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the nation's fundamental legal framework has emerged as the No. 1 constitutional model for the world, according to a new American study that also tracks the "free fall" decline of the U.S. Constitution as a template for other countries.

Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz1sF5VMawJ

I apologize for spraying the bush_cheney2004/American Woman pheromone in this thread.

[dre]

But if they choose not to, there's not a thing you can do about it.

Yup the system isnt perfect for sure, its just better than the other options at present, and the judiciary is a hell of a lot more trustworthy and less fickle and prone to reactionism than our lazy assed political class.

[WWWTT]

I understand that most of the time the courts should administer the laws that Parliament has passed but sometimes it seems the courts make their own law, at least in the way they apply it.

This is false!

First off the government can not create any law that they may seem is fashionable or popular and expect judges to rubber stamp them.

When many laws are created they must be able to stand up in a court of law against many challenges against its legitimacy.

Are you suggesting that we throw out our judicial system because you disagree with the findings of a few judges?

WWWTT

[Argus]

I apologize for spraying the bush_cheney2004/American Woman pheromone in this thread.

Sorry if I don't take a mathematical formula which compares gradient degrees of influence as any actual indication of the value of our Charter of Rights.

[Argus]

Yup the system isnt perfect for sure, its just better than the other options at present, and the judiciary is a hell of a lot more trustworthy and less fickle and prone to reactionism than our lazy assed political class.

It's better than what other options? Can you demonstrate how the Charter has improved Canada's freedom? Can you show me the case law which has made Canadians (as opposed to criminals) free, where they weren't before?

What human rights do we have now that we didn't have before?

As for those fickle politicians, they, at least, can be tossed out on their asses, unlike judges.

[Argus]

This is false!

First off the government can not create any law that they may seem is fashionable or popular and expect judges to rubber stamp them.

So governments should not rule according to the will of the people?

Are you suggesting that we throw out our judicial system because you disagree with the findings of a few judges?

There was a judicial system here before the Charter, and it seemed to work pretty darn well. And when we wanted laws to change, we voted in people who would change them according to our will.

Edited by Argus, 16 April 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[cybercoma]

Sorry if I don't take a mathematical formula which compares gradient degrees of influence as any actual indication of the value of our Charter of Rights.

That's ok. You don't have to apologize about it.

There must be some value in it if it's being emulated around the world.

[Argus]

That's ok. You don't have to apologize about it.

There must be some value in it if it's being emulated around the world.

Really? Where?

[cybercoma]

Really? Where?

Was the article I posted wrong?

[dre]

It's better than what other options? Can you demonstrate how the Charter has improved Canada's freedom? Can you show me the case law which has made Canadians (as opposed to criminals) free, where they weren't before?

What human rights do we have now that we didn't have before?

As for those fickle politicians, they, at least, can be tossed out on their asses, unlike judges.

Thats a different discussion and thats a question for legislators not the courts. They wrote the thing, and they can unwrite it if they want to.

What I was talking about is the idea of having an independent judiciary to reconcile conflicts between thousands of laws, and constitutional framework documents.


But to answer your question theres lots of good stuff in the Charter, some of it extremely important.

Section 3: the right to vote and to be eligible to serve as member of a legislature.
Section 7: right to life, liberty, and security of the person.
Section 8: freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
Section 9: freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment.
Section 10: right to legal counsel and the guarantee of habeas corpus.
Section 11: rights in criminal and penal matters such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Section 12: right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.
Section 13: rights against self-incrimination
Section 14: rights to an interpreter in a court proceeding.

Edited by dre, 16 April 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[Shady]

Is judicial activism out of control?

Upholding the constitution isn't judicial activism. It's their job.

[WWWTT]

So governments should not rule according to the will of the people?

Actually Harper did not do anything to change the constitution so technically the judges are acting well within their mandate!

If somehow you were under the impression that an act of parliament can somehow sweep away constitutional rights then that was a failure of misunderstanding on your part!

If Harper really wants to effectively implement his new judicial mandate then he can always try to make constitutional change or implements parts thereof to enforce.Its his political funeral if he tries!

WWWTT