33 replies to this topic

[August1991]

I reckon that Charest started this tuition kerfuffle knowing well the consequence. (Charest's political sophistication and cynicism amaze me.)

Prior to an election, Charest has divided Quebec society into a yes/no referendum - he has created a wedge issue.

Everyone knows Charest's side: tuitions increase. And it happens that the majority agrees with Charest. (Most people have no desire to pay more taxes to finance students.)

Marois foolishly fell for Charest's gambit and first wore the red square. Now she's not so public with the square. And the CAQ is eclipsed (since no one cares what Legault is wearing).

Of course, this whole thing could blow up in Charest's face. He's opted for a risky option.

===========

Tuition fees? In progressive Scandinavian societies?

BTW, if you read about university tuition in Finland and Quebec, keep in mind that Finland has obligatory military service. Or Norway and Quebec? Norway sells its own gasoline to its citizens at over $2.60 per litre. (I pay about 5 cents per kwh to Hydro-Quebec - people in Boston pay over 16 cents per kwh.)

----

And before the Quebec-bashing starts, let me make a very serious point about Alberta, Quebec, Canada and Europe.

There is something sad about a place like Norway that has its own currency, refuses to become a member of the EU and then preaches to the rest of the world about how to be civilized.

The same can be said of the rest of Scandinavia, or Leftist/Socialists elsewhere who point to Sweden/Denmark as examples of successful collectivism. Why do Sweden and Denmark have their own currency?

AFAIK, Danielle Smith has no desire to create her own currency. Albertans (and people in Quebec) get along. We share a currency, and a federal governemnet.

Norwegians and Greeks cannot claim as much.

Edited by August1991, 21 April 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[waldo]

Charest v. the Taliban/Students

Taliban! ... you are so controversial!

[August1991]

Taliban! ... you are so controversial!

Student = طالب

Waldo, what is a legitimate civilized State? And does such a State have the right to use force?

Edited by August1991, 21 April 2012 - 02:40 AM.

[Topaz]

I still think students should boycott college and university for at least one year but I don't think it would last that long. Can you imagine professors out of a job? Student loans are growing as faster as consumer debt and some won't be able to buy a home because of the debt. I would take the boycott, non-violent approach and I think the student would win because it would affect the economy.

[BubberMiley]

What does all this remedial ESL analysis have to do with the Taliban? Was Hitler taken?

Edited by BubberMiley, 21 April 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[TheNewTeddy]

Charest is the luckiest politician in Canadian history.

He lost the 1993 PC leadership, thereby saving his arse from what happened to Campbell
He did well enough in 1997 that people said the PC Party is back, but not so well that he would be stuck as leader of the 5th party for a long time
By losing the 1998 election he positioned himself for the 2003 election (during which the Iraq War was ongoing, something which Charest might have had difficulty dealing with as Premier)
He won in 2003 and became Premier
He managed to hold on in 2007, against a strong ADQ challenge
He managed to hold on in 2008, against a strong PQ resurgence
He is well positioned to win an election this year thanks to these protesters
And he will have perfect timing when he quits in 2014/2015 as the PLQ is going to be decimated in the following election

[jbg]

I reckon that Charest started this tuition kerfuffle knowing well the consequence. (Charest's political sophistication and cynicism amaze me.)

Prior to an election, Charest has divided Quebec society into a yes/no referendum - he has created a wedge issue.

Everyone knows Charest's side: tuitions increase. And it happens that the majority agrees with Charest. (Most people have no desire to pay more taxes to finance students.)

Marois foolishly fell for Charest's gambit and first wore the red square. Now she's not so public with the square. And the CAQ is eclipsed (since no one cares what Legault is wearing).

Of course, this whole thing could blow up in Charest's face. He's opted for a risky option.

===========

Why is that a risky issue? I would think that ultra-low university tuitions are very much of a special interest issue, that costs everyone lots of money.

Tuition fees? In progressive Scandinavian societies?

Since when is Quebec a Scandinavian society?

And before the Quebec-bashing starts, let me make a very serious point about Alberta, Quebec, Canada and Europe.

There is something sad about a place like Norway that has its own currency, refuses to become a member of the EU and then preaches to the rest of the world about how to be civilized.

The same can be said of the rest of Scandinavia, or Leftist/Socialists elsewhere who point to Sweden/Denmark as examples of successful collectivism. Why do Sweden and Denmark have their own currency?

The euro was a dreadful mistake. It's a typical European gambit to recreate the Holy Roman Empire and upstream power away from the voters.

AFAIK, Danielle Smith has no desire to create her own currency. Albertans (and people in Quebec) get along. We share a currency, and a federal governemnet.

Ask some Albertans how they feel about Quebec's subsidized services, at their expense.

Norwegians and Greeks cannot claim as much.

I'm sure if I were a Norweigian I wouldn't want to subsidize Greek corruption.

[jbg]

I have been asked by one of my regular e-mail correspondents to post this letter. She has been trying unsuccessfully to get it printed in the Montreal Gazette:

I wanted to send this letter to their paper . dot

April 14/12
Letters:

Montreal protesters don’t realize how good they’ve got it

Montreal’s university students have been rioting and marching the streets for over two months against an increase in their tuition fees when they
should be rejoicing they have been paying less than half the tuition fees paid by other students across Canada.
The tuition fees charged by all universities across Canada were published in Maclean’s magazine in November. It listed all the pertinent information needed to help students make good university choices. That once-a-year special issue outlined all the universities national rankings, faculty awards, student awards, average entering grade, student support in scholarships, bursaries, total research dollars and their tuition fees.
All the tuition fees at Quebec’s seven universities were less than half those of universities across Canada. It is discriminating and shocking to read that Quebec universities have two sets of tuition fees, one for Quebec students and the other for those from outside the province.
For example, McGill University’s fee for Quebec students is only $2,168, but $5,858 for students outside Quebec-more than twice as much. Laval University is $2,168 and $5,858 for non Quebecers.
It is the same situation for all of Quebec’s universities. The fees for other provinces vary slightly according to enrolment, but have one price only for local and non-resident students. Canada’s other universities, such as Queen’s charge $5,461; Calgary $5,257; Regina is $5,212 and others vary from $4,800 to $5,800 for all students with no discrimination.
I found one exception in Manitoba, where the French University in St. Boniface had a much lower tuition fee than the English University of Manitoba. This discrimination may also exist in New Brunswick.
I hope the Montreal students will soon become aware they have not been paying their fair share for years and an increase in tuition is a must.
It is time the students hurried back to class and got off the streets of protest

DF

[BubberMiley]

But Quebec would never have had such low tuition if students there didn't march against the suggestion of increases. It would be rather ungrateful if they gave up the fight now, just because conservatives don't want to pay to educate their youth anymore.

[PIK]

I still think students should boycott college and university for at least one year but I don't think it would last that long. Can you imagine professors out of a job? Student loans are growing as faster as consumer debt and some won't be able to buy a home because of the debt. I would take the boycott, non-violent approach and I think the student would win because it would affect the economy.

What I would do is , kick out every student that was arrested and the professor that\ was the 1st to be arrested, fired. This is nothing but a ''I am entitled to my entitlements'' moment. Most students want to go to school and the ones that don't , get rid of everyone of them.

[PIK]

But Quebec would never have had such low tuition if students there didn't march against the suggestion of increases. It would be rather ungrateful if they gave up the fight now, just because conservatives don't want to pay to educate their youth anymore.

Why should the taxes of other provinces go to quebec, so it can have cheap tuition?

[madmax]

But Quebec would never have had such low tuition if students there didn't march against the suggestion of increases. It would be rather ungrateful if they gave up the fight now, just because conservatives don't want to pay to educate their youth anymore.

Over a decade ago... the Students of the University with a PC mindset campaigned for HIGHER tuititions and against those who wanted to keep tuitions down. The government was very happy to comply.

Tutitions are too high...but those PCs students didn't care.. it wasn't going to affect them....

[jacee]

Quebec students agree to call truce in effort to resolve strike over tuition hike
After refusing to meet the students, the Minister of Education bowed to public pressure and called the meeting.

It comes on the heels of strong criticism against Premier Jean Charest who during a public speech last week mocked the student protestors.

At the same time students and police clashed outside the convention hall where Mr. Charest was speaking.

And for weeks the government reiterated that it would never discuss its plan to impose a 75-per cent tuition fee over five years. Now Ms. Beauchamp sated that while the government remained “firm” about the increases, she also remained open to discuss it.
____

Quebec student associations have accepted the Quebec government’s invitation calling for a 48-hour truce in their protest movement that has recently sparked violent clashes with police in a last ditch effort to resolve the ten-week strike over university tuition fees. If more more time was needed to reach a solution, the student leaders said they would even be willing to extend the truce.
...

The group representing university students added that they will remain on strike for as long as it takes to get a settlement.

“We will take the time to discuss what we need to discuss,” said the university student federation president Martine Desjardins.

“ Our associations have unlimited strike mandates....Our students will remain on strike until we get a clear proposition ( from the government).”
...
During the news conference today the Minister appeared concern over the impact the long strike was having on the post-secondary education system in the province.

And the government was also beginning to worry that the social unrest caused by the student protest movement was beginning to attract more and more support from all segments of Quebec society.

An estimated 200,000 people marched in Montreal on Sunday marking Earth Day many of them backing the student strike as an expression of the growing social unrest in the province.
____
The more militant of the three student associations the Coalition large de l’Association pour une solidarité syndicale étudiante will join the talks later this afternoon.

Last week the government refused to open discussions with the CLASSE present at the table demanding that the group condemn the violence that erupted during demonstrations.

The CLASSE accepted over the weekend to condemn violent acts against individuals but continued to promote civil disobedience.


Congratulations to the students on strike.
Turns out it DOES matter to the universities and to the government if the students aren't there.

Now listen for the sound of government squealing.

Edited by jacee, 23 April 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[August1991]

Since when is Quebec a Scandinavian society?

Many sovereignists (separatists) believe that if Quebec were independent, then Quebecers would be free to create such a civilized society as Sweden or Norway.

I'm sure if I were a Norweigian I wouldn't want to subsidize Greek corruption.

And yet you're a New Yorker who pays taxes to a federal IRS in Washington and shares a single currency from Guam to Bar Harbor.

-----

Norway has its own currency and Norwegians contribute nothing to the EU budget. They are fair weather collectivists. At the same time, they sell their own resource to themselves at the world price. Moreover, when they chose in a referendum to separate from Sweden and create a sovereign state, the result was over 90% in favour.

Left wing, sovereignist Quebecers are fair weather collectivists too. But unlike Norwegians, they insist on selling electricity at home far below world prices, and they have been unable to achieve more than 50% in two referenda.

Anyway, whatever one thinks of God, Lutheran Norway (Scandinavia) is little like Roman Catholic Quebec.

Charest is the luckiest politician in Canadian history.

Who said that luck is when opportunity meets preparation? Is it a Chinese character?

To me, Charest is the proverbial alley cat - a cynical survivor. We'll soon find out whether he has used his nine lives.

Edited by August1991, 23 April 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[August1991]

I have been asked by one of my regular e-mail correspondents to post this letter. She has been trying unsuccessfully to get it printed in the Montreal Gazette:
....

All the tuition fees at Quebec’s seven universities were less than half those of universities across Canada. It is discriminating and shocking to read that Quebec universities have two sets of tuition fees, one for Quebec students and the other for those from outside the province.

As in the US where state universities (eg. UCLA or SUNY) charge out-of-state students higher fees, Canadian provinces set different tuition fees according to residency. I'm not defending the practice; I'm simply saying that Quebec universities are not alone.

As to Quebec's low tuition fees, why not? In fact, why should students pay tuition fees at all?

For some reason, we in North America in general collectively pay tuition fees/costs for students in elementary school and high school. And at age 18, we suddenly stop. Why?

------

Last point: About 30% of Quebec high school students are in private schools with tuition fees. IOW, many of the kids demonstrating in Quebec went to secondary schools requiring an annual tuition fee of $3000 or so! To make matters worse, these secondary schools can choose their students yet receive a state subsidy.

Take Brébeuf, for example. It's a "private" secondary school in Montreal covering Grades 7 to 11. It chooses its students and annual tuition fees are about $3000. The Quebec government subsidizes Brébeuf with about $12,000 for each student.

About 30% of secondary school students in Quebec are in such "private" schools.

Oh, the irony of the collectivist ideology!

Edited by August1991, 23 April 2012 - 10:31 PM.