34 replies to this topic

[jacee]

The article in the OP was about unionization.

It reports that "just under a third" of workers are unionized, and 80% of those not unionized don't want to be. In other words, 20% of those not unionized would like to be.

So that's 32% + (.2 x .68) = 46% who do, or want to belong to a union.

We can assume that a substantial portion of the rest are management or business owners.

I think the author 'overstates' the conclusion.

[The_Squid]

Roughly three-quarters agreed with the right of workers to cross picket lines

These three quarters are idiots.

We have anti-scab legislation in BC. Even the conservative gov't (bc libs) that has been in power for more than a decade knows that it promotes labour peace and is good for both business and labour.

When BC brought in its anti-scab law, the number of work-days lost to strikes was cut in half in the first year. Without being able to rely on replacement workers, employers return to the bargaining table, and settle negotiations with their employees fairly. Furthermore, there is no solid evidence whatsoever to back up the claim – often made by employers – that anti-scab laws will drive away investment. In fact, after Ontario passed its anti-scab laws Savage reports there was a significant increase in investment and employment.

http://theindependen...ough-is-enough/

[Bryan]

Count me among those who would not want to work a unionized job. I've done it before (both in public and private sector jobs), and it's always a negative experience. Waste, inefficiency and sloth are rewarded, efficiency and hard work is punished. The last straw for me was when I was working at a hospital, and I was given an official reprimand for cleaning up my own mess when I spilled my coffee. You know, because only the person whose union classification is cleaning is allowed to use a mop.

Labourwatch may well be a "union busting outfit", but to me that would only enhance their credibility. Anyone who is opposed to unions is OK in my book. It's disgusting how unions are allowed to hold business owners hostage, and they should be 'busted'.

[dre]

Count me among those who would not want to work a unionized job. I've done it before (both in public and private sector jobs), and it's always a negative experience. Waste, inefficiency and sloth are rewarded, efficiency and hard work is punished. The last straw for me was when I was working at a hospital, and I was given an official reprimand for cleaning up my own mess when I spilled my coffee. You know, because only the person whose union classification is cleaning is allowed to use a mop.

Labourwatch may well be a "union busting outfit", but to me that would only enhance their credibility. Anyone who is opposed to unions is OK in my book. It's disgusting how unions are allowed to hold business owners hostage, and they should be 'busted'.

Waste, inefficiency and sloth are rewarded, efficiency and hard work is punished.

This is a urban myth. The only real studies that Iv seen into this subject suggest theres very little different in productivity or efficiency between union and non union shops at all.


As for the rest of the OP... Almost EVERYONE thinks government funds come from heaven, whether they are conservative, liberal, or socialist. You guys are ALL part of the "magic money" generation, that in a few short decades has not only spent all their own money, but all of your childrens money and most of your grand childrens money as well.

The only real difference is what people want the magic money spent on, but theres an almost universal support for the idea that we should go on spending it.

[Argus]

If you read the first post... Tony Clement is Mentioned and the $16 glass of OJ is Bev Oda, although not named specifically.. she is the only one in the news for a glass of juice.

Bev Oda a doctor? ScaREY.

Point is he writes a rant about government and politicians, some of which I agree with, and then finishes it up by adding in 'unions' and a long piece from an anti-union outfit about how much people really must hate unions.

[Argus]

A doctor not even close ...she was a worked in tv started out at TVO and then to CTV. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bev_Oda

Yeah, my mistake. I was thinking of Leona Aglukkaq.

[Argus]

Count me among those who would not want to work a unionized job. I've done it before (both in public and private sector jobs), and it's always a negative experience. Waste, inefficiency and sloth are rewarded, efficiency and hard work is punished.

Hasn't been my experience. Quite the opposite, in fact. However, in general, larger organizations tend to be less efficient, and they also are more likely to be unionized. That's especially so of the public sector. And while the public sector is inefficient it's the fault of management not the workers.

As an example, yesterday, at a government department, a big shot was meeting with his new boss. The big shot's office decided the big shot needed a bunch of 'good news' items and all areas of the branch were ordered to produce some 'talking points' and do it TODAY. So all the middle managers in the branch got together with their staff to hurriedly draw up something. Only an hour into it the big shot's office changed the parameters, so everyone had to redo everything. Then the big shots office decided it had to be in power point slides, then they decided... Well, half the day was wasted by half the branch. For nothing.

[dre]

Hasn't been my experience. Quite the opposite, in fact. However, in general, larger organizations tend to be less efficient, and they also are more likely to be unionized. That's especially so of the public sector. And while the public sector is inefficient it's the fault of management not the workers.

As an example, yesterday, at a government department, a big shot was meeting with his new boss. The big shot's office decided the big shot needed a bunch of 'good news' items and all areas of the branch were ordered to produce some 'talking points' and do it TODAY. So all the middle managers in the branch got together with their staff to hurriedly draw up something. Only an hour into it the big shot's office changed the parameters, so everyone had to redo everything. Then the big shots office decided it had to be in power point slides, then they decided... Well, half the day was wasted by half the branch. For nothing.

If you look at the annual harbor report, it does detailed analysis between union and non union shops in the auto industry. It backs up what you are saying as well. Theres very little difference in productivity between union and non union shops, and some of the most productive auto plants are unionized.

[Jack Weber]

Count me among those who would not want to work a unionized job. I've done it before (both in public and private sector jobs), and it's always a negative experience. Waste, inefficiency and sloth are rewarded, efficiency and hard work is punished. The last straw for me was when I was working at a hospital, and I was given an official reprimand for cleaning up my own mess when I spilled my coffee. You know, because only the person whose union classification is cleaning is allowed to use a mop.

Labourwatch may well be a "union busting outfit", but to me that would only enhance their credibility. Anyone who is opposed to unions is OK in my book. It's disgusting how unions are allowed to hold business owners hostage, and they should be 'busted'.

What's "disgusting" is the polly anna notion the Free Marketeers have that the meritocracy they promote actually exists...

[cybercoma]

Given the news on Bev Oda lately, I wouldn't say it's the socialists that believe government funds come from heaven.

[punked]

If you look at the annual harbor report, it does detailed analysis between union and non union shops in the auto industry. It backs up what you are saying as well. Theres very little difference in productivity between union and non union shops, and some of the most productive auto plants are unionized.

The other thing is when you compare all Unionized wages and benefits vs. Non unionized these work to about the same amount. this is because the higher up the ladder you go the more the Non unionized workers earn compared to their unionized counter parts.

[madmax]

Point is he writes a rant about government and politicians, some of which I agree with, and then finishes it up by adding in 'unions' and a long piece from an anti-union outfit about how much people really must hate unions.

Checking the alignment of the planets... seems I agree with you on 3 points in this thread...

[jacee]

Given the news on Bev Oda lately, I wouldn't say it's the socialists that believe government funds come from heaven.

[bleeding heart]

Anyone who claims that the non-union, private workforce is inherently "efficient" and "merit-based" has not spent his or her lifetime working in non-unionized private industry.

It's incredible to me that people think Theory poached from the oversimplisic pages of introductory texts in the "dismal science" actually trumps objective reality itself.

And then gets angry and defensive about this!...but then, I guess that's part of what Fundamentalism is.

Edited by bleeding heart, 26 April 2012 - 03:46 AM.

[Fletch 27]

Incorrect on your Incorrect.. The Ontario Jockey Club informed a young family member just 2 years ago that if she did not join, she will not work there. Unions are above the law and only care about union dues. Lets try real-life experiences here... as opposed to simply stating "Incorrect" in some high and mighty union way.. Sickening

Incorrect...

No one is obliged to join a union as a condition of employment.As a union steward you should have been knowledgable about the labour laws in Ontario...

Look up "Agency Shop" because that's what we work under in this province...

Your mischaracterization of the legal situation re. union membership is,indeed,hamfisted...I'd also add poorly informed...