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Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby...


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#1 Peeves

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:30 AM

http://www.inquisitr...earch-suggests/


:o

While wind energy is known to be cleaner than burning fossil fuels, researchers have found that wind farms have a direct effect on the environment around them, warming the local climate by as much as 0.72 degrees Celsius per decade.

Researchers analysed satellite data of the areas surrounding wind farms in Texas, where four of the world’s largest wind farms are stationed. The data was compiled between 2003 and 2011.

The results, which were published Sunday in Nature Climate Change journal, show that this change is in comparison to the areas around the wind farms, which also experienced a change, attributed to global warming.
(more at link)


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#2 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby... "wind farms contribute to global warming"

hey Peeves baby... you don't know enough to know you don't know! :lol:

localized effect... nothing to do with global warming... occurs at night only (see temp inversion)... daytime temperatures unaffected... at night, turbines pulling warm air down to ground level... see distinction between land surface temp & air surface temp...

in the paper's main author's own words:

we express the warming effect as a linear trend in °C per decade units. This is just one simple way to quantify the wind farm impacts while reducing the year-to-year data noise. The estimated warming trend only applies to the study region and to the study period, and thus should not be extrapolated linearly into other regions (e.g., globally) or over longer periods

compared to impacts of other human-made land use changes, the estimated warming over the wind farms is small

Overall, the warming effect reported in this study is local and is small compared to the strong background year-to-year land surface temperature changes. Very likely, the wind turbines do not create a net warming of the air and instead only re-distribute the air’s heat near the surface (the turbine itself does not generate any heat), which is fundamentally different from the large-scale warming effect caused by increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.


note: the actual original source of your linked reference, of this stellar BS is, in fact, a British tabloid newspaper... does Shady know you are taking over his beat? :lol:

#3 GostHacked

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

Waldo, the turbines do not bring warm air down. The air is what moves the blades. If warm air is present, it's not because of the turbines. Also the higher you go, the colder it gets. So if anything they would be bringing cold air down.

If the land around the turbines is getting warmer, it is due to the machinery possibly at the base of the turbine. There is something connecting them all underground that would feed the generated electricity.
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#4 fellowtraveller

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

Waldo, the turbines do not bring warm air down. The air is what moves the blades. If warm air is present, it's not because of the turbines. Also the higher you go, the colder it gets. So if anything they would be bringing cold air down.

If the land around the turbines is getting warmer, it is due to the machinery possibly at the base of the turbine. There is something connecting them all underground that would feed the generated electricity.

wouldn't there be heat loss off the windings on the generator on each tower?
Why yes there would be.
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#5 Derek L

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:51 PM

Of course there’s a creation of heat, or better put (fluid) friction, by the conversion of two types of energy associated with a wind turbine. Of course the actual amount of heat/friction will be dependent on the wind temperature and the circumference and size/weight of the blades……..This is hardly a new scientific finding……


*edit to add

Edited by Derek L, 30 April 2012 - 01:53 PM.

The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.
-Barry Goldwater-

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
-Winston Churchill-

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-Ronald Reagan-

#6 Derek L

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

To add though, as a form of consolation to supporters of wind/green energy, perhaps you should now jump into bed with these guys:

Boeing

Lockheed Martin

General Dynamics


;)
The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.
-Barry Goldwater-

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
-Winston Churchill-

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-Ronald Reagan-

#7 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

localized effect... nothing to do with global warming... occurs at night only (see temp inversion)... daytime temperatures unaffected... at night, turbines pulling warm air down to ground level... see distinction between land surface temp & air surface temp...


Waldo, the turbines do not bring warm air down. The air is what moves the blades. If warm air is present, it's not because of the turbines. Also the higher you go, the colder it gets. So if anything they would be bringing cold air down.

If the land around the turbines is getting warmer, it is due to the machinery possibly at the base of the turbine. There is something connecting them all underground that would feed the generated electricity.

no - again, per the paper, satellite derived data shows the warming affect only at night-time... not day-time. In that regard, explain your alternate claim... alternate claim to the paper's authors. You ignored the early reference/quotes from the paper's principal author... here, try one from one of the co-authors:

This warming effect is most likely caused by the turbulence in turbine wakes acting like fans to pull down warmer near-surface air from higher altitudes at night," said Somnath Baidya Roy of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, a co-author of the paper



#8 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

To add though, as a form of consolation to supporters of wind/green energy, perhaps you should now jump into bed with these guys:

Boeing

Lockheed Martin

General Dynamics
;)

consolation??? Huh! Your fav military crew are only bit players now... looking to get into the game... have you heard, apparently there's a market... a growing market, world-wide - go figure! By the by, here's a handy cut&paste listing the top 10 wind turbine manufacturers... would you like the top 20... top 30?

#1 - Vestas Wind Systems A/S
#2 - GE Wind Energy
#3 - Sinovel
#4 - Enercon GmbH
#5 - Xinjiang Goldwind Science & Technology Co, Ltd
#6 - Gamesa Corporación Tecnologíca, S.A.
#7 - China Dongfang Electric Corporation
#8 - Suzlon Energy
#9 - Siemens Wind Power
#10 - REpower Systems AG

#9 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:39 PM

hey Peeves... suck it up and do the right thing... change your thread title - save yourself further embarrassment, hey?

#10 Derek L

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:52 PM

consolation??? Huh! Your fav military crew are only bit players now... looking to get into the game... have you heard, apparently there's a market... a growing market, world-wide - go figure! By the by, here's a handy cut&paste listing the top 10 wind turbine manufacturers... would you like the top 20... top 30?

#1 - Vestas Wind Systems A/S
#2 - GE Wind Energy
#3 - Sinovel
#4 - Enercon GmbH
#5 - Xinjiang Goldwind Science & Technology Co, Ltd
#6 - Gamesa Corporación Tecnologíca, S.A.
#7 - China Dongfang Electric Corporation
#8 - Suzlon Energy
#9 - Siemens Wind Power
#10 - REpower Systems AG


Without Googling the rest, #2 makes (Super Hornet) jet engines and # 9 (Subsystems for the F-35) military electronics and software..........You should be relieved, clearly a sign that Wind/Green energy has the potential to become a money maker………The Environmental lobby just needs to further shape their message…….Perhaps get big oil further involved ;)

Edited by Derek L, 30 April 2012 - 02:54 PM.

The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.
-Barry Goldwater-

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
-Winston Churchill-

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-Ronald Reagan-

#11 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:54 PM

Perhaps get big oil further involved ;)

no problem - see "green-wash"... makes for great optics!

#12 Derek L

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:03 PM

no problem - see "green-wash"... makes for great optics!


No problem, my wife’s Escalade has that cute little Hybrid leaf on it ;)
The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.
-Barry Goldwater-

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
-Winston Churchill-

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-Ronald Reagan-

#13 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:15 PM

No problem, my wife’s Escalade has that cute little Hybrid leaf on it ;)

:lol: the ultimate green-washing... imagine a hybrid that falls into the same category as Hummers! A 7km/liter gas guzzling behemoth hybrid! Hey what's your pay-back period?

#14 Derek L

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

:lol: the ultimate green-washing... imagine a hybrid that falls into the same category as Hummers! A 7km/liter gas guzzling behemoth hybrid! Hey what's your pay-back period?


It has the exact same powertrain as the Hummer……..pay-back period? About the same as Jabba’s hover barge…….
The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.
-Barry Goldwater-

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
-Winston Churchill-

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-Ronald Reagan-

#15 waldo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:28 PM

It has the exact same powertrain as the Hummer……..pay-back period? About the same as Jabba’s hover barge…….

granted, for anyone who would actually buy the Escalade "hybrid" tank, pay-back is the last thing on their/your mind... but it does make for great comedy... it's gold Jerry, real gold! :lol:

(defer to Yankee sources/numbers): assuming $72K purchase cost, using the EPA's fuel-economy ratings and gas averaged @ $3 dollars/gallon => payback would be at 218,000 miles.