110 replies to this topic

[American Woman]

The shirt does not say that. Which one do you find more offensive?

I think they are both just as offensive, in spite of how I personally might perceive it. In other words, different things are offensive to different people - and therein lies the problem.

PJ's are also comfy. No point. Just sayin'

Fair enough. I thought maybe I was missing something.

[jefferiah]

Fair enough. I thought maybe I was missing something.

Well, actually the other day I was thinking, we really need some more comfy alternatives to business/casual office clothing. Like a yoga business suit.

[kimmy]

I think you are arguing with someone who is not me. This is an argument you did not resolve with someone else and are trying to finish with me, perhaps? Invitro fertilization? Krystalnacht? Godwin's Law works in mysterious ways.

Christians are the ones telling us they're the victims of persecution. The comparison of Christians today to Jews in the time of Hitler is pretty absurd, but it didn't come from me, it came from Bishop Daniel Jenky. The invitro fertilization comment was in reference to a Catholic school that is being sued for wrongful dismissal after they fired a teacher who sought IVF treatments. The Catholics are once again trying to present this as a secular attack on their religious beliefs. Or Christians talking about how anti-bullying laws are anti-Christian. I've mentioned lots of examples in the other thread. Christians trying to play victim for political purposes.

This kid is doing the same.

In any case, my position is that it is ridiculous to suspend someone for this tshirt. You may disagree with that. Obviously Cybercoma and Bonam do, and some agree with me.

Hypothetically, if he had worn some other shirt would it still be ridiculous to suspend him for it? If the shirt had said, hypothetically, "White Power", or something like that?

I base this on the premise that (disregarding what anyone else thinks or how they would react) if it were a kid wearing a shirt that says "Life is Wasted Without Allah", I would think it would be overboard for people to take the message that that person is actually saying their life is a waste. I know, I would not even think that.

But we have been told that this is a kid who goes around telling other kids they're going to hell. So it's clear that that's exactly what message his shirt is supposed to give. You'd have to be extremely dense to think otherwise.

So let's examine it from that perspective. And I am not using this particular example because I think "Oh if it were a muslim tshirt this would not have happened." I really do not know what would happen in such a situation, but regardless, it has no bearing upon the illustration I am about to make. Where I am a Christian (perhaps a poor one at that) and you seem to have a great deal of frustration toward Christians, then perhaps the best way for either of us to see the issue clearly is to replace it with another faith.

If you are sitting in school, and someone is wearing an hypothetical t-shirt which reads "Life Is Wasted Without Allah", do you really take that as a message that this person is saying your life is a waste?

If it was being worn by a kid who was known for telling infidel students that they were going to hell, then yes, I would.


-k

Edited by kimmy, 10 May 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[wyly]

My first reaction was "boo hoo, someone's feelings were hurt." Honestly, if someone is secure in their beliefs, I don't think someone claiming something else should make them feel less worthy. Still, I feel as if the school offered a good compromise.

he was aggressively badgering other students with his religious message/conversions, his t-shirt was part of his in your face approach...what has been omitted from this story is other students complained they have a right to attend school without religious fanatics trying to convert them, it's more than just a t-shirt...if this had been hari Krishna's moonies or any other weird sect trying to convert students there wouldn't be anyone criticizing the schools actions...

[kimmy]

he was aggressively badgering other students with his religious message/conversions, his t-shirt was part of his in your face approach...what has been omitted from this story is other students complained they have a right to attend school without religious fanatics trying to convert them, it's more than just a t-shirt...if this had been hari Krishna's moonies or any other weird sect trying to convert students there wouldn't be anyone criticizing the schools actions...

Well said.


While the spin some people have been trying to put on it is that it's just a silly controversy about a kid who wants to wear a Jesus shirt and a school that is trampling on his freedom of expression,there is a lot more to the story, and it's been overlooked or ignored:

Judith Sullivan-Corney, the school board chairwoman, showed up to offer her support to students and staff.

Later in the day, Sullivan-Corney said the issue goes deeper than a T-shirt, but the school was bound by confidentiality and could not get into details.

“Unfortunately, it all became about the T-shirt.”

She said both sides feel bullied, so mutual respect must be brought into the discussion.

“We need to respect each other’s views and say, as a community, how do we move forward and how do we bring William back into this school and make him feel welcome.”

Student council vice-president Katelyn Hiltz said the situation has hurt the school and upset students, a number of whom were writing advanced-placement exams Monday.

Katelyn said she supported the school suspending Swinimer after he had repeatedly been told that some students were upset by his proselytizing and found his shirt offensive.

Student Riley Gibb-Smith, 15, said the situation has taken focus away from where it should be — on education.

“It’s ridiculous. It should be a normal school day, but no one can be able to focus today,” he said.

“This thing never was about a shirt. He’s telling kids they’ll burn in hell if they don’t confess themselves to Jesus. He’s said that.”

-k

[cybercoma]

That's just his belief. He's allowed to go around and talk about his beliefs. That's his RIGHT! You fascists won't stop until you have all the Christians rounded up in forced-work camps. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[American Woman]

he was aggressively badgering other students with his religious message/conversions, his t-shirt was part of his in your face approach...what has been omitted from this story is other students complained they have a right to attend school without religious fanatics trying to convert them, it's more than just a t-shirt...if this had been hari Krishna's moonies or any other weird sect trying to convert students there wouldn't be anyone criticizing the schools actions...

I didn't criticize the school's actions; quite the opposite, so I'm not sure why you are directing this at me. But he wasn't told to stop badgering the other students, he was only told not to wear the t-shirt. Apparently he could have continued badgering the other students, ie: preaching his beliefs. So really, that has no bearing on anything - the only thing that he was banned from is wearing the t-shirt. (Which has been overturned).

[bleeding heart]

I am simply telling you that you are over-analyzing things.

Actually, you called him a snivelling little baby who lacks testicles. (Which tells us a little about your views of the feminine, of course.)

Which means, of course--by your own formulation--that if anything offends you (anything at all), and it doesn't offend others...well, you do the math.

[TheNewTeddy]

It comes down to weather or not it is okay to tell everyone you meet that they are going to hell.

[betsy]

Well in this incident, it's the schoolboard that made a major boo-boo by their bullying attempt to stifle freedom (Religion and Expression), coinciding with the anniversary of the Charter of Rights to boot!
They missed a golden opportunity to explain about rights and freedom! They could've taught the whiners how to roll their eyes over a message they don't agree with!

Then, instead of admitting they were wrong, and instead of showing a positive example to everyone by apologising to Swinimer - or to any child for that matter if we caused them some grief or offense - they tried to backtrack with this so-called "dialogue."
Well, it's the schoolboard - more than anyone else - who needs counselling and training.

Edited by betsy, 18 May 2012 - 05:45 AM.

[guyser]

Well in this incident, it's the schoolboard that made a major boo-boo by their bullying attempt to stifle freedom (Religion and Expression), coinciding with the anniversary of the Charter of Rights to boot!
They missed a golden opportunity to explain about rights and freedom! They could've taught the whiners how to roll their eyes over a message they don't agree with!

Then, instead of admitting they were wrong, and instead of showing a positive example to everyone by apologising to Swinimer - or to any child for that matter if we caused them some grief or offense - they tried to backtrack with this so-called "dialogue."
Well, it's the schoolboard - more than anyone else - who needs counselling and training.

Thanks for this,

What incident are you reading about, because the on in this thread has no relevance to your post.

[betsy]

Thanks for this,

What incident are you reading about, because the on in this thread has no relevance to your post.

I was giving my take on the Jesus t-sthirt incident. The original post, I guess.

[betsy]

From what I've read in this thread he was allegedly "badgering" other students. What strikes me as odd is the fact that the school didn't warn him about harrassing others - because that's what badgering is.
That the school board warned him repeatedly about the t-shirt and yet didn't warn him about badgering (which is more serious than just wearing that t-shirt), surely, it throws question to the reliability of reports that he was indeed badgering other students.

Edited by betsy, 18 May 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[guyser]

I was giving my take on the Jesus t-sthirt incident. The original post, I guess.

No you werent.

Otherwise you would know this was not about a T shirt , but I suppose an uber-religious person like you would certainly want to make it seem that way.

More War on Christianity BS . No surprise.

[betsy]

No you werent.

Otherwise you would know this was not about a T shirt , but I suppose an uber-religious person like you would certainly want to make it seem that way.

More War on Christianity BS . No surprise.

If that's the way you understood it, what can I say?
If you insist in knowing (more than I do) what I was replying to, what can I do?

But I know what I was responding at....and that's that.

Do I take it you're not happy to see me? No big hugs?

Anyway...whatever. bye.

Edited by betsy, 18 May 2012 - 11:48 AM.