65 replies to this topic

[bush_cheney2004]

I already posted this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/USDebt.png

Debt as a % of GDP peaked more than 20 years before Nixon.

Canada's recent debt to GDP peaked in 1995 and has declined sharply. Income gap and employment rates also improved in Canada since the magic Nixonian shock of 1971. But some folks would rather ignore such facts just to pursue a "golden" agenda.

[Michael Hardner]

Canada's recent debt to GDP peaked in 1995 and has declined sharply. Income gap and employment rates also improved in Canada since the magic Nixonian shock of 1971. But some folks would rather ignore such facts just to pursue a "golden" agenda.

There are eerie similarities to the 'Free Silver' movement here.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/218360/Free-Silver-Movement

[bush_cheney2004]

There are eerie similarities to the 'Free Silver' movement here.

Another reason why Ron Paul's ideas shall remain in the nut jar where they belong. Far greater economic calamity was experienced in the 20th century while on the "gold standard", for unrelated reasons.

[Jack Weber]

No this is absolutely wrong. Im not a big fan utopian libertarianism and a lot of Ron Pauls stuff is crazy but on this point you are absolutely wrong.

The ONLY reason that the disparity of wealth has exploded since the 70's is because of the modern banking system and the massive ammounts of monetary expansion. The banks created trillions apon trillions of dollars out of thin are and the wealthy got their hands on almost all of it for two reasons...

1. The money was loaned into existance and people with lots of wealth and income qualified to borrow way more of it than the other classes.

2. Wealthy people and people with high incomes had the infrastructure (investments, and businesses) to chase down and corral all that new money that was dumped into the system.

The modern banking system is the most regressive creation in the history of democracy. Under the gold standard the gap between the rich and poor steadily shrank and the middle class emerged. The ability of the government to fund itself through inflation and monetary expansion allowed governments to slash top bracket tax rates, and the wealthy used all this new money to effectively wrestle control of the government away from the people.

Basically what happened is that the middle and lower class has about the same ammount of money as they did in 1971... even a tiny bit more, which kept them from turning activist. But ALL of that new money created under the fiat system was essentially divided up amongst the wealthy thus the huge explosion in disparity.

Im not personally a gold standard bug like Mr Paul but the fact is that if Ron Paul had his way this disparity of wealth would have been physically impossible. The dollars simply would not exist. The wealthy could have only grown the "gap" by taking money directly from the lower classes and this would have immediately caused a huge fight that the wealthy would have lost.

That may all be true...

Mr. Paul is also an unabashed supporter of Right to Work legislation.We know this is corporate driven legislated union busting to artificially keep wages and benefits down under the guise of "individual worker rights and freedom"..

He let it slip in one of the debates that he feels the US requires a national RTW strategy to "compete" with the low wages that are seen in places like China.That's not "freedom",that's corporate tyrrany!Especially when one delves into who is really behind Right to Work...

So,either Mr. Paul is truly naive in thinking RTW is really about individual workers rights and freedoms in the workplace (which means he's completely clueless and infantile) or,he's a mouthpiece for the scary people behind Right to Work legislation (which makes him an ignorant elitist)...

Edited by Jack Weber, 14 May 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Michael Hardner]

So,either Mr. Paul is truly naive in thinking RTW is really about individual workers rights and freedoms in the workplace (which means he's completely clueless and infantile) or,he's a mouthpiece for the scary people behind Right to Work legislation (which makes him an ignorant elitist)...

His supporters will love him no matter what, especially because Nixon is to blame for our economic woes today. Ron will create a gold-standard for the economy and once the minimum wage is gone, all of our salaries will soar !

[bush_cheney2004]

His supporters will love him no matter what, especially because Nixon is to blame for our economic woes today. Ron will create a gold-standard for the economy and once the minimum wage is gone, all of our salaries will soar !

Yes...it will be a grand time for all. Grandmas will start giving away Double Eagle coins again as birthday presents, and silver dollars will jingle in America's pockets once again. I can't wait...

[Jack Weber]

His supporters will love him no matter what, especially because Nixon is to blame for our economic woes today. Ron will create a gold-standard for the economy and once the minimum wage is gone, all of our salaries will soar !

I realize kool-aid drinkers are...kool-aid drinkers...

[bud]

ron paul is right; the current system is not sustainable.

if this continues, it's only a matter of time that it all collapses. i don't know if ron paul's system would succeed, because we don't have an example of it succeeding. however, we do have the example of the current system not succeeding.

[Michael Hardner]

ron paul is right; the current system is not sustainable.

Given that the sun will explode in 5 billion years, no system is sustainable.

if this continues, it's only a matter of time that it all collapses.

True - but what about the sun ?

i don't know if ron paul's system would succeed, because we don't have an example of it succeeding.

however, we do have the example of the current system not succeeding.

Also - don't forget the sun.

---

Seriously, 5,000 years of human history shows us that some things are always with us:

economics and scare mongering are just two of those things.

[bud]

Given that the sun will explode in 5 billion years, no system is sustainable.




True - but what about the sun ?



Also - don't forget the sun.

i thought you were above terrible sarcastic humour. oh well.

i'm talking about the credit and money printing system that the current economic structure is based on. i'm talking about the socialist system created for the corporations. i'm talking about the increasing power of the lobby/special interest groups that trump the need of the majority. the sun will outlive the current corrupt system just like it has during the collapse of numerous empires in the past 3000 years.

here is crrrrrazy ron paul and status quo paul krugman discussing the economic system:

[dre]

His supporters will love him no matter what, especially because Nixon is to blame for our economic woes today. Ron will create a gold-standard for the economy and once the minimum wage is gone, all of our salaries will soar !

Wow what trash. Strawman followed by another strawman, followed by retarded garbage. Hard to even tell who youre talking at here since nobody in this thread took any of those positions.

Hitting the sauce pretty hard tonight Mike?

Edited by dre, 15 May 2012 - 12:22 AM.

[dre]

Given that the sun will explode in 5 billion years, no system is sustainable.




True - but what about the sun ?



Also - don't forget the sun.

---

Seriously, 5,000 years of human history shows us that some things are always with us:

economics and scare mongering are just two of those things.

Ah yes, the sun...

Edited by dre, 15 May 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[dre]

i thought you were above terrible sarcastic humour. oh well.

i'm talking about the credit and money printing system that the current economic structure is based on. i'm talking about the socialist system created for the corporations. i'm talking about the increasing power of the lobby/special interest groups that trump the need of the majority. the sun will outlive the current corrupt system just like it has during the collapse of numerous empires in the past 3000 years.

here is crrrrrazy ron paul and status quo paul krugman discussing the economic system:

Responding to questions about the sustainability of something by pointing out that the sun will one day cease to exist is at least good for a few laughs

[dre]

Canada's recent debt to GDP peaked in 1995 and has declined sharply. Income gap and employment rates also improved in Canada since the magic Nixonian shock of 1971. But some folks would rather ignore such facts just to pursue a "golden" agenda.

This infantile lapse of logic has already been answered. And nobody in this thread that I know of is proposing a return the gold standard.

[dre]

That may all be true...

Mr. Paul is also an unabashed supporter of Right to Work legislation.We know this is corporate driven legislated union busting to artificially keep wages and benefits down under the guise of "individual worker rights and freedom"..

He let it slip in one of the debates that he feels the US requires a national RTW strategy to "compete" with the low wages that are seen in places like China.That's not "freedom",that's corporate tyrrany!Especially when one delves into who is really behind Right to Work...

So,either Mr. Paul is truly naive in thinking RTW is really about individual workers rights and freedoms in the workplace (which means he's completely clueless and infantile) or,he's a mouthpiece for the scary people behind Right to Work legislation (which makes him an ignorant elitist)...

Finally a post that attempts to actually discuss something. Youre right... Much of Ron Pauls adgenda is flat out crazy. Hes right on banking, mostly right on foreign policy, but I cant stomach anything else the guy says at all.

One quick point though... China can only flood the west with cheap garbage because we run large trade deficits with them. If we had sound money we couldnt do this, because we would simply run out of whatever was backing the purchasing power of our money. Of course to some extent this is already happening. Our dollars are losing value against most of the important things we need to buy (food, energy, college tuition, medical care, etc)