86 replies to this topic

[Signals.Cpl]

what? the ottomans? i do recommend that you read about the history of the region before engaging in a debate about it.

these people have land titles. many of the titles are still in possession of the original owners and their descendants.

You know the empire that occupied the area in 1914. You might want to brush up on history and geography before you criticize people. If you don't know what you are talking about say so we already know we just want you to admit. You used statistics from 1914 when the entire region was under Ottoman rule so I am sorry but you just lost the minuscule value that you brought to this argument.

[bud]

You know the empire that occupied the area in 1914. You might want to brush up on history and geography before you criticize people. If you don't know what you are talking about say so we already know we just want you to admit. You used statistics from 1914 when the entire region was under Ottoman rule so I am sorry but you just lost the minuscule value that you brought to this argument.

under the ottomans, people still owned land and had titles. this is land that the zionist congress wanted to purchase.

Edited by bud, 14 May 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[Signals.Cpl]

under the ottomans, people still owned land and had titles. this is land that the zionist congress wanted to purchase.

Under the Ottoman Empire, jews were under severe restrictions when it came to immigration or purchasing land while at the same time the Ottoman Empire's government flooded the area with Arabs from all four corners of the empire in order to outnumber the jewish settlers. After the Ottoman Empire lost World War One the British Empire took over the region while the french took over Syria. The British made the offer in 1937 less then 20 years after they captured the territory from the ottomans. Once the Ottomans were pushed out and the Ottoman Empire collapsed to form the Turkish Republic the British occupied the area lifting many if not all of the restrictions faced by the Jews in the area of immigration and land ownership. The Arabs had in most cases been there for a short time 30-60 years and they outnumbered the Jews because of the restrictions the Ottomans placed. The case could be made that the Israeli people were in the area much earlier then the Arabs and the only reason they were so few in number was due to the frequent occupation and reoccupation of the area by multiple empires and the constant persecution of the Jews by pretty much every body and their mother.

You are stating that the Jews stole the land from the Arabs, while I challenge that because the Jews were on the land well before the arabs and were forcibly removed in many cases.Being kicked out of their land 500-800 years prior does not negate their ownership as a people, and favourable policies by the occupying regime towards the arabs does not grant them ownership either. This was mishandled by both sides and the major powers after world war 1 and world war 2 but by no means are the Israelis 100% guilty or even 50% guilty. At this point they are fighting for their national survival and I have nothing but respect and support for them.

Edited by Signals.Cpl, 14 May 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[bud]

Under the Ottoman Empire, jews were under severe restrictions when it came to immigration or purchasing land while at the same time the Ottoman Empire's government flooded the area with Arabs from all four corners of the empire in order to outnumber the jewish settlers.

i thought you were about links.

After the Ottoman Empire lost World War One the British Empire took over the region while the french took over Syria. The British made the offer in 1937 less then 20 years after they captured the territory from the ottomans. Once the Ottomans were pushed out and the Ottoman Empire collapsed to form the Turkish Republic the British occupied the area lifting many if not all of the restrictions faced by the Jews in the area of immigration and land ownership. The Arabs had in most cases been there for a short time 30-60 years

really? 30-60 years? link?

and they outnumbered the Jews because of the restrictions the Ottomans placed. The case could be made that the Israeli people were in the area much earlier then the Arabs and the only reason they were so few in number was due to the frequent occupation and reoccupation of the area by multiple empires and the constant persecution of the Jews by pretty much every body and their mother.

link?

You are stating that the Jews stole the land from the Arabs,

i am stating facts. there are countless documented evidence which show that the zionists took part in a systematic form of ethnic cleansing to make way for greater israel. this is still happening today by way of forced land annexation, home demolitions and illegal government sponsored settlements.

while I challenge that because the Jews were on the land well before the arabs and were forcibly removed in many cases.Being kicked out of their land 500-800 years prior does not negate their ownership as a people, and favourable policies by the occupying regime towards the arabs does not grant them ownership either.

your suspicious use of years, without citing is not going to pass. you also cannot claim that a russian jew who was living in russia and was told to migrate to palestine has more claim to a land that he or his parents or grandparents never set foot in, than an arab and his parents and grandparents who had already been living there for centuries.

your biblical claim to land is not going to fly in the face of reality.

At this point they are fighting for their national survival and I have nothing but respect and support for them.

the sad truth is that according to the perverted israeli laws and to your acceptance, if i converted to judaism, i would have more claim to land annexed (see stolen) by israel in the west bank than a palestinian arab who has been living there for centuries.

Edited by bud, 15 May 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Peeves]

I would disagree with that statement.
-1948 Arab–Israeli War vs 12 nations
-Six-Day War 1967 vs 12 nations
-War of Attrition 1967-1970 vs 6 nations
-Yom Kippur War 1973 vs 16 nations
-1982 Lebanon War vs 4 nations
-2006 Lebanon War vs 2 nations


They sure look dependant.

Und


Were one to add up all the funding the USA gives to the Islamic (non democratic nations that in general show they hate the USA) + the cost of the Iraq- (2) invasions, the Afghan war and North Korea bribes and other countries in general, It's nice to see the USA supports a democratic friend that is a line of defense in a sea of Islamic tyranny.


As for Bud's claim that Israel has never stood on it's own, that's pretty much what an anti-Semite might claim. Pretty much a lie when one looks at Israel's history, though I doubt he would apologise even though you prove him wrong.


Israel does what Israel needs to do for survival. Sometimes in the extreme and in hind site could have done something different.

By Cal Thomas

Unemployment in America is hovering at just below 10 percent, so President Obama hosted a “Summit on Entrepreneurship” in Washington, D.C., in an effort to boost economic development … in Muslim nations.

The president thinks more U.S. investment in Muslim lands and exchange programs that will bring Muslim women to America so they can work as interns will enhance U.S. prosperity and, thus, change Muslim attitudes about the United States.

Pigs will fly first.

The U.S. has been more than generous to Arab and Muslim nations in direct foreign aid, military assistance and other ways. Egypt receives about $2 billion of American taxpayer dollars every year, yet it still votes against American interests at the U.N. 79 percent of the time. Jordan, a “moderate” Muslim nation, receives nearly $200 million annually in U.S. foreign aid, but votes against America at the U.N. 71 percent of the time. Pakistan votes 75 percent of the time against the U.S. at the U.N. while pocketing nearly $7 million annually in foreign aid (in addition to the money it gets to supposedly fight al-Qaida).

An even better example of the disconnect between American assistance and changed Muslim attitudes toward the U.S. is the Palestinian Authority. As former Israeli diplomat Yoram Ettinger writes for ynetnews.com, just since 2007, “U.S. foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority and to PA-controlled (nongovernmental organizations) reached nearly $2 billion, in addition to $3.7 billion contributed by the U.S. to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East since 1950.”

[bush_cheney2004]

...the sad truth is that according to the perverted israeli laws and to your acceptance, if i converted to judaism, i would have more claim to land annexed (see stolen) by israel in the west bank than a palestinian arab who has been living there for centuries.

And according to federal / provincial laws, if I converted to Canadianism I am able to buy land without the restrictions in place for foreign ownership. Ditto land purchased for reserve status, even though natives were living there for "centuries".

[bud]

Und


Were one to add up all the funding the USA gives to the Islamic (non democratic nations that in general show they hate the USA) + the cost of the Iraq- (2) invasions, the Afghan war and North Korea bribes and other countries in general, It's nice to see the USA supports a democratic friend that is a line of defense in a sea of Islamic tyranny.

why do you think the dictators in the mid-east have been receiving aid?

egypt received $1.3 billion (and not $2 billion) from u.s. to support israel's blockade and shut its borders to gaza.

As for Bud's claim that Israel has never stood on it's own, that's pretty much what an anti-Semite might claim. Pretty much a lie when one looks at Israel's history, though I doubt he would apologise even though you prove him wrong.

how typical of you, peepee; criticism of israel = anti-semitism.

israel, from before it became a country until now has received financial and political support from the 2 world powers. without their help, israel would not be here. there would be no balfour accord, there would be no veto of resolutions, there would be no $3 billion+ a year of aid, there would be no impunity for war crimes.

israel is a spoiled little child who would not be able to get away with what it's doing without daddy america.

Israel does what Israel needs to do for survival. Sometimes in the extreme and in hind site could have done something different.

buddy. expanding illegal settlements and not allowing a palestinian state to form is NOT survival. it's an aggressive behaviour of a rogue state.

Edited by bud, 15 May 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[guyser]

And according to federal / provincial laws, if I converted to Canadianism I am able to buy land without the restrictions in place for foreign ownership

What restrictions?

Virtually none, anywhere in Canada, unless buying more than 10 acres....which almost never happens.

[bush_cheney2004]

What restrictions?

Virtually none, anywhere in Canada, unless buying more than 10 acres....which almost never happens.

Not quite the case...there are different limitations in several provinces based on residency, plot size, total number of plots, maximum shoreline length, etc. And that's fine, the point being that Canada (and the USA) has limitations on foreign land ownership....just like Israel.

[bush_cheney2004]

...israel is a spoiled little child who would not be able to get away with what it's doing without daddy america.

That's right...buddy...and if you want to change that, you're gonna have to go through "america" first...the hard way.

[bud]

That's right...buddy...and if you want to change that, you're gonna have to go through "america" first...the hard way.

bush cheney admits that israel could not stand on its own feet without u.s. why can't you?

[guyser]

Not quite the case...there are different limitations in several provinces based on residency, plot size, total number of plots, maximum shoreline length, etc.

ie...virtually none. Six provinces have no restriction. Some have land more than 10 acres w rules.

[Signals.Cpl]

i thought you were about links.

Comment #37 check it out.

really? 30-60 years? link?

Comment #37

link?

Comment #37

i am stating facts. there are countless documented evidence which show that the zionists took part in a systematic form of ethnic cleansing to make way for greater israel. this is still happening today by way of forced land annexation, home demolitions and illegal government sponsored settlements.

To be fair they were the victims of ethnic cleansing since the Crusades.

your suspicious use of years, without citing is not going to pass. you also cannot claim that a russian jew who was living in russia and was told to migrate to palestine has more claim to a land that he or his parents or grandparents never set foot in, than an arab and his parents and grandparents who had already been living there for centuries.

I was not there in person, couldn't tell you the minute and second...

your biblical claim to land is not going to fly in the face of reality.

Its historical ownership not biblical ownership.

the sad truth is that according to the perverted israeli laws and to your acceptance, if i converted to judaism, i would have more claim to land annexed (see stolen) by israel in the west bank than a palestinian arab who has been living there for centuries.

I don't know about that, but to me the jews have as much if not more right to the land then the Arabs mainly because they were forced out of the area first. The arabs are for all intents and purposes squatters in the Israel. Just because they were at one time stronger and expelled the owners from the land does not give them rights to that land.

[Signals.Cpl]

bush cheney admits that israel could not stand on its own feet without u.s. why can't you?

Neither can Canada, or any other western power. That was clearly shown in 1956 and repeatedly since. When it comes to war most western countries have limited ability to conduct even a limited war and today even England has lost the ability to wage the kind of war in the South Atlantic that they fought in 1982. In a major natural disaster Canada would be heavily dependant on the goodwill of the US since our abilities have been cut down due to decades of budget cuts.

[bush_cheney2004]

ie...virtually none. Six provinces have no restriction. Some have land more than 10 acres w rules.

Nevertheless, such foreign land ownership laws do exist in the remaining provinces, complete with residency rules and exclusions.