28 replies to this topic

[westguy]

First of all, all workers pay into EI, it's a must, not a choice. So now, we have a PM who doesn't believe in social programs, and wants to gut them. The Alliance party is out of touch with most Canadian workers. Since we don't know all the conditions as yet, we can't really debate this issue properly. One thing I do know, Canadians are getting reality check about this party and the social programs its changing that it NEVER mention in their election speeches and we all know why.

false- we have a prime minister that doesn't like people who CAN work coasting on the coattails of the taxpayers

[punked]

Well EI benefits only last a certain ammount of time... so the most you can wait for a good job is a year.

If you are going to be kicked off of EI because a job at Macdonalds comes up then just shut EI down completely because its utterly worthless. I wouldnt pay a fuckin dime for that kind of "insurance".

A private insurance company could not even charge 20 dollars per month for such insurance in the marketplace.

Utterly... F**king... WOrthless.

What this is about is cutting as many Transfers from one part of the country to the next. Kurgman has a whole article how these types of Transfers are good economics that stop the drag on countries, Federations, and Unions Economy. How this very type of transfer (although he talks about SS) has stopped Florida from becoming Spain. It is good economics which must be why Conservatives hate it. They wont stop until we are in a depression.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/02/florida-versus-spain/

[punked]

false- we have a prime minister that doesn't like people who CAN work coasting on the coattails of the taxpayers

Have fun when these people are no longer fishing and contributing to the Economy because if they dare fish they will lose the Welfare Conservatives are going to be forcing them onto.

[eyeball]

Have fun when these people are no longer fishing and contributing to the Economy because if they dare fish they will lose the Welfare Conservatives are going to be forcing them onto.

You know what's really sad, fishermen could be contributing to the economy by performing the stewardship work our fisheries depend on during the off season. If Ottawa would only dare to let fishing communities manage their own affairs and economic fate this is what would happen, in my region at least. As it is they barely dare to even let us fish anymore.

Edited by eyeball, 02 June 2012 - 08:48 AM.

[Argus]

First of all, all workers pay into EI, it's a must, not a choice. So now, we have a PM who doesn't believe in social programs, and wants to gut them.

He's hardly 'gutted' EI. All they've done is tinkered a little, and it will only affect people in areas where there actually are alternate jobs for them. The various efforts of the Liberals, and before them the PCs to reform EI were far more 'radical' than what the Conservatives just did.

[Argus]

Unfortunately intentions and realities seem to have turned out differently. EI for seasonal workers etc is very much indeed a social program.

It's an absurd system which ignores the fact that some seasonal workers, tradesmen, for example, are paid very high salaries specifically because the jobs are considered seasonal.

[CPCFTW]

Well EI benefits only last a certain ammount of time... so the most you can wait for a good job is a year.

If you are going to be kicked off of EI because a job at Macdonalds comes up then just shut EI down completely because its utterly worthless. I wouldnt pay a fuckin dime for that kind of "insurance".

A private insurance company could not even charge 20 dollars per month for such insurance in the marketplace.

Utterly... F**king... WOrthless.

A private insurance company would never insure seasonal workers for being unemployed.

In group insurance schemes for private workers, you will typically be given a choice for which benefits you want to be insured for. The current model is akin to forcing everyone to buy the most expensive insurance plans so that a few people can get free braces, laser eye surgery, botox, and boob jobs.

If everyone is going to be compelled to pay for the most expensive insurance plan, then it is reasonable for the government to attempt to contain costs.

If seasonal workers had to insure themselves the calculation for their premiums would be quite simple. It would amount to about 1/3rd of their paycheque. The rest of EI contributors are subsidizing their rates to the far lower levels that they actually pay.

Honestly what kind of nonsense is this. Insuring againt something that there is a 100% probability of happening.. And paying 2500/yr at most for several times more in benefits. What a joke.

Edit: Maximum EI deduction is actually around $800, not $2500. I was thinking of CPP.

"Wahhhh I can't pay $800 for thousands in cash each year!! What an utterly worthless insurance!!"

Edited by CPCFTW, 02 June 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[punked]

A private insurance company would never insure seasonal workers for being unemployed.

In group insurance schemes for private workers, you will typically be given a choice for which benefits you want to be insured for. The current model is akin to forcing everyone to buy the most expensive insurance plans so that a few people can get free braces, laser eye surgery, botox, and boob jobs.

If everyone is going to be compelled to pay for the most expensive insurance plan, then it is reasonable for the government to attempt to contain costs.

If seasonal workers had to insure themselves the calculation for their premiums would be quite simple. It would amount to about 1/3rd of their paycheque. The rest of EI contributors are subsidizing their rates to the far lower levels that they actually pay.

Honestly what kind of nonsense is this. Insuring againt something that there is a 100% probability of happening.. And paying 2500/yr at most for several times more in benefits. What a joke.

That is all well and good but this isn't private insurance it is public insurance. Which means when they implement these measures I fully expect them to cut my premium when they turn a profit. That isn't what the Conservative will do though what they are going to do is roll this into the general revenue to pay for corporate tax cuts. That motivates the Conservatives to kick more and more workers off EI to use it as a Shadow tax which is wrong.

If I believed for a second the Conservatives were using this EI reform to actually reform EI for the public I would support it. What they are actually doing is kicking workers who pay into EI off of EI to transfer the EI revenue to balance their books. That isn't how public "insurance" should work that is just another tax we have to pay to shift the tax burden off of some and onto the workers of this country.

[CPCFTW]

That is all well and good but this isn't private insurance it is public insurance. Which means when they implement these measures I fully expect them to cut my premium when they turn a profit. That isn't what the Conservative will do though what they are going to do is roll this into the general revenue to pay for corporate tax cuts. That motivates the Conservatives to kick more and more workers off EI to use it as a Shadow tax which is wrong.

If I believed for a second the Conservatives were using this EI reform to actually reform EI for the public I would support it. What they are actually doing is kicking workers who pay into EI off of EI to transfer the EI revenue to balance their books. That isn't how public "insurance" should work that is just another tax we have to pay to shift the tax burden off of some and onto the workers of this country.

Who cares what you think the Conservatives will do with it? We have frequent elections and if the conservatives roll EI profits into general revenues (which they won't), it will be an obvious election issue which another party can use to gain power.

Reducing EI premiums is also sort of a corporate tax cut. I personally believe that the conservatives are doing this to stimulate job creation by reducing our tax on employment (ei premiums). It doesn't really make sense to roll the EI savings into general revenue to pay for corporate tax cuts, when just reducing ei premiums would also be a corporate tax cut, and would stimulate job creation more than general corporate tax cuts, and would not be a future hot button election issue. But I guess if you think of the CPC as the boogeyman who wants to destroy Canada then it might make sense.

Edited by CPCFTW, 02 June 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[punked]

Who cares what you think the Conservatives will do with it? We have frequent elections and if the conservatives roll EI profits into general revenues (which they won't), it will be an obvious election issue which another party can use to gain power.

Reducing EI premiums is also sort of a corporate tax cut. I personally believe that the conservatives are doing this to stimulate job creation by reducing our tax on employment (ei premiums). It doesn't really make sense to roll the EI savings into general revenue to pay for corporate tax cuts, when just reducing ei premiums would also be a corporate tax cut, and would stimulate job creation more than general corporate tax cuts, and would not be a future hot button election issue. But I guess if you think of the CPC as the boogeyman who wants to destroy Canada then it might make sense.

They have already rolled EI surpluses into the general revenues in 2010 they moved 57 BILLION of EI Surplus into the general revenues creating the underfunded EI program problem they are fixing right now. They just increased EI premiums this year. Do you get tired of the double speak? Claiming the Conservatives wont do things they are doing right now makes you look misinformed. They are using EI as a pay roll tax so then they can claim "we never raised taxes we cut them" but basically they are making up their gap they created with the corporate tax cuts and HST cut by raising EI premiums by making EI a pay roll tax. Wake the f up.

It isn't what I think. It is the actions of the Conservatives which speak loader then your words. They have already done it. You are just to uninformed to care just "as long as those damn fishermen get their come uppins" right?

Edited by punked, 02 June 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[PIK]

They have already rolled EI surpluses into the general revenues in 2010 they moved 57 BILLION of EI Surplus into the general revenues creating the underfunded EI program problem they are fixing right now. They just increased EI premiums this year. Do you get tired of the double speak? Claiming the Conservatives wont do things they are doing right now makes you look misinformed. They are using EI as a pay roll tax so then they can claim "we never raised taxes we cut them" but basically they are making up their gap they created with the corporate tax cuts and HST cut by raising EI premiums by making EI a pay roll tax. Wake the f up.

It isn't what I think. It is the actions of the Conservatives which speak loader then your words. They have already done it. You are just to uninformed to care just "as long as those damn fishermen get their come uppins" right?

How many billions did the libs take out of that to pay off the debt?

[punked]

How many billions did the libs take out of that to pay off the debt?

The same amount actually. I get what you are saying the Liberals and Conservatives are the same party who do the same things. Their supports whined and cried when the other was in power about things like rolling EI into the general revenues when the other was in power then turned a blind eye when their party did the same thing they thought was wrong only a few years ago. I know they are the same party one is red the other is blue but they are both for the same policies and govern the same way.

I am happy we agree the Conservatives are just as bad as the Liberals you hate but gee you sure love those Conservatives when they do the same thing. Welcome to hypocrisy. It isn't enough to say the other guy did it to. You need to demand better from those who govern you even if you once supported them.

[PIK]

The same amount actually. I get what you are saying the Liberals and Conservatives are the same party who do the same things. Their supports whined and cried when the other was in power about things like rolling EI into the general revenues when the other was in power then turned a blind eye when their party did the same thing they thought was wrong only a few years ago. I know they are the same party one is red the other is blue but they are both for the same policies and govern the same way.

I am happy we agree the Conservatives are just as bad as the Liberals you hate but gee you sure love those Conservatives when they do the same thing. Welcome to hypocrisy. It isn't enough to say the other guy did it to. You need to demand better from those who govern you even if you once supported them.

We are getting what we want. people getting back to work. It was the libs over time that allowed canadians to become lazy and live off of others, the cons are putting a end to that. Candians have become very lazy and that has to end. I for one am sick and tired of working every day so others can sit at home and drink beer and watch jerry springer, are you one of those?

[punked]

We are getting what we want. people getting back to work. It was the libs over time that allowed canadians to become lazy and live off of others, the cons are putting a end to that. Candians have become very lazy and that has to end. I for one am sick and tired of working every day so others can sit at home and drink beer and watch jerry springer, are you one of those?

Yah I remember a very prominent person who called out of work Canadians Lazy maybe it is time for another history lesson for you. It was R. B. Bennett he was the Conservative Prime Minister during the great depression (you know the last we faced a crisis which on the magnitude that we do today). He lost his election Before him Canada had been ruled by Conservative after Conservative his stupid attitude (that people don't want to work or those who were out of work were lazy) ushered in the Liberal ERA for Canada. Be careful what you wish for.

This isn't about what is fair or what is not fair. This is about good economics vs. bad economics. Now is not the time to cripple our countries economy all because you heard a story once about some fisherman who gets EI every year. Not to mention this is all a ploy to make EI a tax grab to balance the books anyway.

Edited by punked, 02 June 2012 - 02:33 PM.