54 replies to this topic

[jbg]

The article below points out some rather sickening atrocities that are getting some minor attention now, but which will be soon forgotten, the next time Israel or the U.S. needs to defend itself.

Syria's violence relentless, crossing borders (link to article, excerpts below)

(AP) BEIRUT - Syrian forces killed at least five people when they raided a Sunni farming village on Sunday, torching homes and looting shops in what activists said is a sign of worsening relations among the country's religious groups.

Tensions stemming from the 14-month-old uprising against President Bashar Assad also touched off clashes across the border in Lebanon as the revolt threatened to morph into a broader conflict.

The relentless violence further undermines a U.N.-backed peace plan that is supposed to bring an end to Syria's deadly crisis. A cease-fire that was supposed to begin on April 12 has had only a limited effect, throwing into doubt the rest of the plan that calls for talks between Assad's regime and those seeking to end his rule.

The raid against the impoverished village of al-Tamana, about 35 miles northwest of the city of Hama, began late Saturday and continued through the early hours on Sunday. The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said five people were killed in the raid and government troops were setting fire to homes.

I do note that the U.N. has tried to broker a ceasefire. But will there be follow-up? Will there be U.N. investigations similar to those conducted after the so-called "Jenin Massacre" where a few civilians were collaterally killed? Will there be probes similar to Gladstone's screed after Cast Lead? Will the randomly torched houses received the same loving attention from the world press that that the IDF receives when it bulldozes empty houses of Palestinian "fighters" (usually suicide bombers)?

Why does the Western press hate the West so much?

Why do we fund the U.N. to attack the West verbally?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.

Edited by jbg, 15 May 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Signals.Cpl]

The article below points out some rather sickening atrocities that are getting some minor attention now, but which will be soon forgotten, the next time Israel or the U.S. needs to defend itself.

Syria's violence relentless, crossing borders (link to article, excerpts below)

(AP) BEIRUT - Syrian forces killed at least five people when they raided a Sunni farming village on Sunday, torching homes and looting shops in what activists said is a sign of worsening relations among the country's religious groups.

Tensions stemming from the 14-month-old uprising against President Bashar Assad also touched off clashes across the border in Lebanon as the revolt threatened to morph into a broader conflict.

The relentless violence further undermines a U.N.-backed peace plan that is supposed to bring an end to Syria's deadly crisis. A cease-fire that was supposed to begin on April 12 has had only a limited effect, throwing into doubt the rest of the plan that calls for talks between Assad's regime and those seeking to end his rule.

The raid against the impoverished village of al-Tamana, about 35 miles northwest of the city of Hama, began late Saturday and continued through the early hours on Sunday. The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said five people were killed in the raid and government troops were setting fire to homes.

I do note that the U.N. has tried to broker a ceasefire. But will there be follow-up? Will there be U.N. investigations similar to those conducted after the so-called "Jenin Massacre" where a few civilians were collaterally killed? Will there be probes similar to Gladstone's screed after Cast Lead? Will the randomly torched houses received the same loving attention from the world press that that the IDF receives when it bulldozes empty houses of Palestinian "fighters" (usually suicide bombers)?

Why does the Western press hate the West so much?

Why do we fund the U.N. to attack the West verbally?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.

Because the UN is irrelevant and on its way out, it will not last much longer it has outlived all of its potential and needs to die and hopefully be reborn in to something more useful.

[jbg]

Because the UN is irrelevant and on its way out, it will not last much longer it has outlived all of its potential and needs to die and hopefully be reborn in to something more useful.

My response is a bit off-topic but why do we need it reborn? How about an organization devoted to liberal democracies instead?

[Signals.Cpl]

My response is a bit off-topic but why do we need it reborn? How about an organization devoted to liberal democracies instead?

My personal opinion is that we need a world government just not this world government. If the UN was properly run and was capable of action, any action other then sending in peacekeepers journalists to record a genocide and report to the rest of the world after the fact.

[jbg]

My personal opinion is that we need a world government just not this world government.

For what purpose?

[Signals.Cpl]

For what purpose?

It might make me naive but I believe in peacekeeping, not the kind that the UN has been doing for the last 60 years but the real and effective peacekeeping/peacemaking that gets results. I know that as a race we are a long way from world peace but one way to limit war, at least in my opinion is by getting countries to commit to collective security. When country x knows that attacking country y would result in 190 countries standing up and protecting country y it might make people think twice about war. I understand that we have already failed twice on global collective security but I can have my dream. I know it sounds naive but I think it is the only way short of world domination by one power or a group of powers to achieve something in the way of long lasting peace.

[jbg]

Signal, interesting discussion. But your thoughts on Syria?

[Signals.Cpl]

Signal, interesting discussion. But your thoughts on Syria?

The only thing we can do is let them die, because if the west does anything we will be blamed for starting this mess over oil or whatever other reason people come up with. In an Ideal world we would move in and stop this massacre but our hands are tied.

Edited by Signals.Cpl, 15 May 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[dre]

OH great. More retarded rants about the UN by people that have no idea what the organization does.

Never mind the 10 year effort that irradicated smallpox.

Never mind the negotiation of almost 300 different treaties related to everything from human rights to education, to international fishing treaties.

Never mind their large contribution to bringing down aparthied in South Africa.

Never mind helping 1.3 billion people get access so safe drinking water that didnt have it before.

Never mind the negotiation of dozens of peaceful settles that ended or eased regional conflicts.

Never mind a huge contribution to the universal immunization of polio, tetanus, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria and tuberculosis, which combined save the lives of 3 million children per year.

Never mind the huge effort to help fledgling democracies run fair elections.

Never mind the clearing of hundreds of thousands of landmines left over from previous wars and the lives that saved in places like Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, El Salvador, Mozambique, Rwanda and Somalia.

Never mind their contribution to the global protection of intellectual property rights.

Never mind the 2 million tons of food that helped 30 million people in 36 countries in the last year alone.

Never mind the manage of global air and sea travel standards that has made travellers around the world safer.

Never mind considerable efforts to fight censorship and promote free press around the world.


And about 1000 other things.

Edited by dre, 15 May 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[jbg]

OH great. More retarded rants about the UN by people that have no idea what the organization does.

Excuse me, sir. Up front I gave them credit for trying to broker a cease-fire.

[dre]

The only thing we can do is let them die, because if the west does anything we will be blamed for starting this mess over oil or whatever other reason people come up with. In an Ideal world we would move in and stop this massacre but our hands are tied.

Oh please... Like worrying about the accusations of starting messes over oil has ever stopped us before. Theres two major reasons why we havent gotten involved over there... 1. No compelling interest in it for us. 2. Its not at all a simple conflict. The sitting government has a lot of support and this is basically a sectarian conflict between different ethnic groups in the region. Furthermore the FSA isnt any more trustworthy than Assad so if we DID go in we wouldnt even know which side to drop bombs on.

But the biggest thing is simply the lack of a compelling self interest.

[Signals.Cpl]

OH great. More retarded rants about the UN by people that have no idea what the organization does.

Never mind the 10 year effort that irradicated smallpox.

Never mind the negotiation of almost 300 different treaties related to everything from human rights to education, to international fishing treaties.

Never mind their large contribution to bringing down aparthied in South Africa.

Never mind helping 1.3 billion people get access so safe drinking water that didnt have it before.

Never mind the negotiation of dozens of peaceful settles that ended or eased regional conflicts.

Never mind a huge contribution to the universal immunization of polio, tetanus, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria and tuberculosis, which combined save the lives of 3 million children per year.

Never mind the huge effort to help fledgling democracies run fair elections.

Never mind the clearing of hundreds of thousands of landmines left over from previous wars and the lives that saved in places like Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, El Salvador, Mozambique, Rwanda and Somalia.

Never mind their contribution to the global protection of intellectual property rights.

Never mind the 2 million tons of food that helped 30 million people in 36 countries in the last year alone.

Never mind the manage of global air and sea travel standards that has made travellers around the world safer.

Never mind considerable efforts to fight censorship and promote free press around the world.


And about 1000 other things.

Rwanda, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Cyprus, Congo, Liberia, Sierre Leone, and pretty much every other mission. And most of the accomplishments you speak of were done despite the UN rather then because of them.

[dre]

Rwanda, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Cyprus, Congo, Liberia, Sierre Leone, and pretty much every other mission. And most of the accomplishments you speak of were done despite the UN rather then because of them.

No actually thats complete horse shit.

[Signals.Cpl]

No actually thats complete horse shit.

I think 800,000 Rwandans might disagree. Oh wait, thanks to the UNs incompetence they are dead... Lets ask the Croatians that were massacred darn it they are dead too... I guess we can ask the Bosnian's? Well the once that are left. How about the people in Darfur? you know, the once that survived, go ahead ask them what the UN did to protect them. What about Somalia? Those bastards are still dying...Good job in keeping peace in Vietnam. Or preventing the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, or the American Invasion of Iraq. Good job keeping the peace in the Iran-Iraq War. And Once again good job stoping the first Sudanese civil war... did I miss anything? Probably about a few thousand events I couldn't remember. The UN Failed in its primary mission of stopping wars and preventing repetitions of the Holocaust, it failed miserably. The League of Nations was an abysmal failure just like the UN and we all know how well that ended.

[dre]

I think 800,000 Rwandans might disagree. Oh wait, thanks to the UNs incompetence they are dead... Lets ask the Croatians that were massacred darn it they are dead too... I guess we can ask the Bosnian's? Well the once that are left. How about the people in Darfur? you know, the once that survived, go ahead ask them what the UN did to protect them. What about Somalia? Those bastards are still dying...Good job in keeping peace in Vietnam. Or preventing the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, or the American Invasion of Iraq. Good job keeping the peace in the Iran-Iraq War. And Once again good job stoping the first Sudanese civil war... did I miss anything? Probably about a few thousand events I couldn't remember. The UN Failed in its primary mission of stopping wars and preventing repetitions of the Holocaust, it failed miserably. The League of Nations was an abysmal failure just like the UN and we all know how well that ended.

Hard to tell who youre event responding to at this point... I never said that the UN has solved all the worlds problems, I just said theyve accomplished a whole lot.