89 replies to this topic

[Argus]

I kind of figured you would post again without learning.

You are not only wrong, but dead wrong. Want to try a third time?

You can give it up. Nobody's buying your technocrat insistence that it's life in prison even when you're sitting by the pool in the Bahamas with a blonde under each arm.

[Argus]

The best and cheapest prevention is rehabilitation. As I said, long periods of closely monitored parole with support. If he fails, he goes back to prison. Prisons should not be punitive but rehabilitative.

Really, so someone rapes and murders a teenage girl should not be subjected to any punitive treatment?

[Argus]

Ok, you answered the first question but how many examples are there really ? Isn't this more emotionally-fuelled politics about something that is by all accounts supposed to be a dispassionate process ? We do call it a 'system' right ?

What do you want to do, have longer sentences ? How long will make you happy ? If somebody runs somebody over due to criminal negligence is 20 years enough ? Life ?

Yes, life, as in forever, as in never getting out, as in kept away from society for the entire remainder of his life.

How many are there? Entirely too many. A large proportion of crimes in Canada is committed by repeat offenders who have long records of convictions going back many, many years. Sweep them all off the street and into a permanent prison and crime would fall.

[Canuckistani]

Canuckistani, on 26 May 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:
The best and cheapest prevention is rehabilitation. As I said, long periods of closely monitored parole with support. If he fails, he goes back to prison. Prisons should not be punitive but rehabilitative.

Really, so someone rapes and murders a teenage girl should not be subjected to any punitive treatment?

If you want revenge for the crime, that's one thing. If you actually want to change behavior punishment won't do it.

[Signals.Cpl]

If you want revenge for the crime, that's one thing. If you actually want to change behavior punishment won't do it.

At some point rehabilitation looses out. How much time has this guy spent in jail I would assume quite some time, and he still was not rehabilitated. At some point it stops being about changing or fixing the person and it becomes a means of prevention.

[Canuckistani]

At some point rehabilitation looses out. How much time has this guy spent in jail I would assume quite some time, and he still was not rehabilitated. At some point it stops being about changing or fixing the person and it becomes a means of prevention.

What guy? What rehabilitation was offered to him, or was he just put in a hell hole where prisoners teach each other how to be better criminals? We should give fixing the person a really good go. If the best we can do doesn't work, then s/he needs to be locked up for ever - but we're not trying anywhere near our best.

Edited by Canuckistani, 27 May 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[eyeball]

No... you want a system that does not produce a single shocking outcome that you can emotionalize over like a 6 year old girl.

All the same I'm pretty sure the Conservative Party still want to benefit from the political bump these sorts of occasional galvanizing events produce.

Your type of thinking should be kept about a billion miles away from our criminal justice system.

It would be even better if we could keep this type of thinking from getting tangled up with our electoral system.

[guyser]

You can give it up. Nobody's buying your technocrat insistence that it's life in prison even when you're sitting by the pool in the Bahamas with a blonde under each arm.

The only ones not buying it are the ones who ignore the truth....people such as those who say ...

that it's life in prison

....when I specifically said life sentence.

And the dancing around that continues.

[Signals.Cpl]

What guy? What rehabilitation was offered to him, or was he just put in a hell hole where prisoners teach each other how to be better criminals? We should give fixing the person a really good go. If the best we can do doesn't work, then s/he needs to be locked up for ever - but we're not trying anywhere near our best.

Robert Clifford Smith.

I don't know, some criminals go to prison and come out with university degrees, so I don't know what hell hole he was in. Its really nice idea to rehabilitate criminals, but what does that mean? Give them an education? Teach them a second Language? Give them all sorts of therapy? And if they reoffend what happens? Do we give them more of the same? If you make a conscience decision to endanger other people's lives you have to live with the consequences.

Its easy to say we will rehabilitate criminals, and there is a time and a place for that, but at some point after the first 60 convictions I would think he lost the right to freedom, or should have at any rate.

[guyser]

Ok so in your argument is that 100% of all those who are handed a life in prison sentence die in prison because it means life? Is that what you mean? Because I sure would LOVE to see those statistics.

What stats? The ones to confirm you move goalposts when you realize this whole time you have been arguing that which you did not know?

I didnt say life in prison , you just imagined I did.

Its a life sentence , and it means life, no matter how you feel about it.

[Signals.Cpl]

What stats? The ones to confirm you move goalposts when you realize this whole time you have been arguing that which you did not know?

I didnt say life in prison , you just imagined I did.

Its a life sentence , and it means life, no matter how you feel about it.

Probably best one know what they are talking about before posting.

Best read up on what constitutes a life sentence in Canada.

Guess what? It means life.

Class over.

Life sentence means life without parole... Now if you are willing to argue that 100% of life sentences handed out in Canada result in life in prison without ever being release I would like to see that. You are making an argument when you know nothing about the subject, and now instead of admitting that you were spewing bullshit you try and recover.

[bleeding heart]

The only ones not buying it are the ones who ignore the truth....people such as those who say ...
....when I specifically said life sentence.

And the dancing around that continues.

I know....


When did explaining different literal meanings become "technocrat insistence"?

[Argus]

The only ones not buying it are the ones who ignore the truth....people such as those who say ...
....when I specifically said life sentence.

And the dancing around that continues.

Again, nobody cares about your technocrat determination that a 'life sentence' is going to protect anyone from a long term criminal, nor that it is appropriate for a career criminal. We want life in prison, not a 'life sentence', which is essentially meaningless.

[Argus]

I know....


When did explaining different literal meanings become "technocrat insistence"?

When it's completely irrelevant to the point being made. You and Guyser know very well what is being argued for - that people who are irredeemably dangerous to the public should be locked up permanently. Doggedly insisting that a life sentence is still a life sentence even when the criminal is walking the streets is pointless.

[bleeding heart]

When it's completely irrelevant to the point being made. You and Guyser know very well what is being argued for - that people who are irredeemably dangerous to the public should be locked up permanently. Doggedly insisting that a life sentence is still a life sentence even when the criminal is walking the streets is pointless.

"Life sentence" and "life in prison" are two different things.

The difference wasn't parsed out pedantically by people trying to win a debate. They have different meanings.

We can't help it if many people are unaware of the (real, existing, legal) distinction.