114 replies to this topic

[punked]

Are those the real choices? How about don't give the kid any more money so he can't afford to keep buying matches?

This isn't about morals. Stop trying to make it about morals that is what got us into the great depression. You can punish who ever you want when the economic engine of the world starts chugging again. However right now this all needs to stop.

[Wild Bill]

This isn't about morals. Stop trying to make it about morals that is what got us into the great depression. You can punish who ever you want when the economic engine of the world starts chugging again. However right now this all needs to stop.

How in hell did you take my post to involve morals?

If you give money to someone who will simply use it to extend or repeat his negative behaviour, you will never accomplish anything positive. Bailing out Greece without forcing them to become fiscally responsible will only mean that in a few years they will need another bailout, then another.

You are talking about being an enabler, as with an alcoholic. He has run out of money. You want everyone to give him some. If they do, he will only get drunk again.

That all seems simple logic to me. How the hell do you make that into a morality argument? I would think that championing being an enabler would not be a good moral position for you to take.

[punked]

How in hell did you take my post to involve morals?

If you give money to someone who will simply use it to extend or repeat his negative behaviour, you will never accomplish anything positive. Bailing out Greece without forcing them to become fiscally responsible will only mean that in a few years they will need another bailout, then another.

You are talking about being an enabler, as with an alcoholic. He has run out of money. You want everyone to give him some. If they do, he will only get drunk again.

That all seems simple logic to me. How the hell do you make that into a morality argument? I would think that championing being an enabler would not be a good moral position for you to take.

They forced them to be "Fiscally responsible" all it did was kill their economy and force them into more debt. Now with Spain and Ireland they didn't even have a public debt problem. Private debt and unregulated banking drove them to the brink. You are making a complex problem a simple one because you don't want to face the realities of the situation.

Large scale economies are a little bit more complicated then an alcoholic or a family. Sorry to be the one who has to break that news to you.

Edited by punked, 09 June 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[ironstone]

I think lot's of countries should adopt the Scott Walker approach.He did get results love him or hate him.It's funny how many didn't volunteer their dues for the unions now that they don't have to.

[Wilber]

They forced them to be "Fiscally responsible" all it did was kill their economy and force them into more debt. Now with Spain and Ireland they didn't even have a public debt problem. Private debt and unregulated banking drove them to the brink. You are making a complex problem a simple one because you don't want to face the realities of the situation.

Large scale economies are a little bit more complicated then an alcoholic or a family. Sorry to be the one who has to break that news to you.

You can't force people into more debt, you can only lend them money. Or not. This country was close to the brink 20 years ago. No one bailed us out.

[punked]

I think lot's of countries should adopt the Scott Walker approach.He did get results love him or hate him.It's funny how many didn't volunteer their dues for the unions now that they don't have to.

If the results we want are to be the worst in the nation in job creation then yes people should go with his approach. I mean that is what Greece is doing right now and it is working great for them right?

[punked]

You can't force people into more debt, you can only lend them money. Or not. This country was close to the brink 20 years ago. No one bailed us out.

The issue isn't if indebted countries should pay off or get out of debt. Everyone in the world agrees with that. The issues is when every country and every private business cuts at the same time the world goes into a depression. The boom not the bust is the time to cut.

I THOUGHT WE LEARNED OUR LESSONS FROM THE DEPRESSION! The whole world can cut but that aint going to help anyone get out of debt. You spending is my income and my spending is your income. Someone needs to spend or that is it sky rocketing unemployment and no one pays off anything.

[Argus]

Here's the answer..



http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/06/08/harper-europe-socialism.html

So he refused to deny it, then... Interesting.

[Argus]

I have yet to see a source that supports this comment that we give billions to europe, to rich private euro bankers.

Well, Mulcair is complaining that Harper isn't cooperating. What Europe wants, as has been stated, is a pledge for some billions of dollars. If Mulcair was okay with Harper telling them to forget it, I would assume he would not be 'castigating' him for not helping, right?

[Argus]

Bailing them out completely sucks but I think we have to help them because one day it could be us. An economically broken Europe will also affect us economically so it's in our interests unfortunately.

France just LOWERED its retirement age from 62 back to 60. Apparently, as far as the French are concerned, there's really no problem.

Meanwhile, we just RAISED our retirement age to 67. Do you seriously think we ought to give these people money so they can retire seven years earlier than us? Never mind the fact that, since we still have a deficit, we'd have to borrow the money!

[punked]

France just LOWERED its retirement age from 62 back to 60. Apparently, as far as the French are concerned, there's really no problem.

Meanwhile, we just RAISED our retirement age to 67. Do you seriously think we ought to give these people money so they can retire seven years earlier than us? Never mind the fact that, since we still have a deficit, we'd have to borrow the money!

France's interest rates is at a 10 year low. No one needs to lend to France or bail them out they can just go out and borrow it all on their own. Your argument makes no sense.

Their 10 year bond yield is at about the same rate as ours. All you proved with this post is you have no clue what this whole thread is about. You are using smoke and mirrors to not address the real issue.

Edited by punked, 09 June 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[Argus]

France's interest rates is at a 10 year low. No one needs to lend to France or bail them out they can just go out and borrow it all on their own. Your argument makes no sense.

Their 10 year bond yield is at about the same rate as ours. All you proved with this post is you have no clue what this whole thread is about. You are using smoke and mirrors to not address the real issue.

Oh, France ISN'T part of the EEU? France doesn't have a large and growing deficit? Their spending isn't rising faster than their income? They don't have a terrible unemployment rate? My mistake!

The French and Germans are the principal architects of the EEU and it's common currency, and the principal beneficiaries. Their citizens enjoy lots of vacations, lots of paid holidays, and outstanding social benefits, far better than ours. Let THEM sacrifice and bail their comrades out.

And by the way, don't the Spanish, Greeks and Italians still get a lot more vacation days, a lot more national holidays, and enjoy better social benefits as well?

Edited by Argus, 09 June 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[Wilber]

France's interest rates is at a 10 year low. No one needs to lend to France or bail them out they can just go out and borrow it all on their own. Your argument makes no sense.

Their 10 year bond yield is at about the same rate as ours. All you proved with this post is you have no clue what this whole thread is about. You are using smoke and mirrors to not address the real issue.

If so, whats your point? Far better we should borrow money to bail out the Euro than they should have to do it themselves?

[punked]

Oh, France ISN'T part of the EEU? France doesn't have a large and growing deficit? Their spending isn't rising faster than their income? They don't have a terrible unemployment rate? My mistake!

The French and Germans are the principal architects of the EEU and it's common currency, and the principal beneficiaries. Their citizens enjoy lots of vacations, lots of paid holidays, and outstanding social benefits, far better than ours. Let THEM sacrifice and bail their comrades out.

If a bailout comes it wont be for France it will be for Spain or some other PIIGS. At this point in time this argument needs not be about the Welfare state in Europe. It needs to be about the Canadian economy. Europe goes tits up oil goes below 80 dollars a barrel so we can say good by to the tarsands until that goes up. They have already closed the development of the second Pot Ash mine in Sask. Commodities go underwater and we are screwed aren't we? Not to mention manufacturing will be decreasing and so on. I am not saying we should give them Billions. I am saying framing the argument the way you guys are and acting as if there will be no repercussions to us is clearly wrong.

[Canuckistani]

good points. Harper wants a trade agreement with Europe. Not much sense in that if there is no Europe to trade with.