66 replies to this topic

[Topaz]

Ontario PC leader Hudak is going down the road to try and change labour law with unions. One of his changes is unions dues being paid by workers who don't want to pay them. Well, I guess if a worker applies to a job and knowing its a union, then that worker knows exactly what is expected of them. Another view is have non-union workers within a union BUT those workers wouldn't get the benfits of all the wages as an union worker. I'm wondering if Hudak as been talking to the feds, to try to get rid of unions, since the feds are reducing the size of unions. I think Hudak may feel the heat on this one. http://www.thestar.c...a-lousy-economy

[Jack Weber]

Wow!!

What a shocker...

Wine Tasting Tim wants to have Right to Work legislation in Ontario to keep things "competative"...

In otherwords,he wants business to write the labour laws in the province because "business knows best"...

I thought the Dominatrix of Labour in Ottawa would go after The Rand Formula,but obviously,she's working hand in hand with the Big Business/Union Busting "Merit" shop movement...

Neocon Wine Tasting Tim to the rescue where the rubber meets the road ,as it relates to labour legislation provincially...

What a gutless weasel Hudak is...

It's a sad day when these gutless,coporate bootlicking cowards have any sway with the public at all....

Edited by Jack Weber, 29 June 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Jack Weber]

It applies there...It applies here...

Right to Work for less...

http://aflcio.org/Le...o-Work-for-Less

Check out that $5,000 a year cut in pay folks'll take by accepting this!!!

Check out that increase in death and injury on job increase that'll happen with this...

Yeah...It's all about the individual workers freedom in the workplace...

[Shady]

Ontario PC leader Hudak is going down the road to try and change labour law with unions. One of his changes is unions dues being paid by workers who don't want to pay them. Well, I guess if a worker applies to a job and knowing its a union, then that worker knows exactly what is expected of them. Another view is have non-union workers within a union BUT those workers wouldn't get the benfits of all the wages as an union worker. I'm wondering if Hudak as been talking to the feds, to try to get rid of unions, since the feds are reducing the size of unions. I think Hudak may feel the heat on this one. http://www.thestar.c...a-lousy-economy

I think it's just going to apply to public sector unions. Because they don't operate under economic reality. Instead of their wages and benefits being based on revenues, like with private sector unions, they're based on the ability to just keep raising taxes. Which isn't sustainable. It's about damn time!!!

[Shady]

Right to Work for less...

You're right. They will be working for less. Because the tax payer shouldn't be subsidizing inflated, unrealistic salaries and benefits that aren't based in economic reality.

[Jack Weber]

You're right. They will be working for less. Because the tax payer shouldn't be subsidizing inflated, unrealistic salaries and benefits that aren't based in economic reality.

I've suspended my personal policy of putting folks like you on ignore for the moment because this is far too important...

Seriously,what planet are you living on???

Do you understand the precedent setting nature that this proposed legislation by Hudak would have?

Their is no way on God's green earth that this will only apply to the public sector!

It will,necessarily,apply to the private sector as well!!

And it's designed to do so!!!

I have my problems with the public sector also,however,this is definately NOT what this is about...It is the provincial attack,started by the federal Tories( with regards to Bill C-377) to attack the Rand Formula and "compulsory" union membership.As I have illustrated many times,we work under the framework of Agency Shop" in this province and no one...NO ONE... is forced to join a union against his/her will...

It's about pitting one worker against the other and forcing individual union locals to represent free ride members to the financial detriment of that local...

And it,by definition,is designed to make people poorer under the guise of "personal freedom" and is being heavily lobbied by corporate entities who have an all too sympathetic ear in Ottawa,and clearly,in opposition at Queens Park...

Edited by Jack Weber, 29 June 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[socialist]

I've suspended my personal policy of putting folks like you on ignore for the moment because this is far too important...

Seriously,what planet are you living on???

Do you understand the precedent setting nature that this proposed legislation by Hudak would have?

Their is no way on God's green earth that this will only apply to the public sector!

It will,necessarily,apply to the private sector as well!!

And it's designed to do so!!!

I have my problems with the public sector also,however,this is definately NOT what this is about...It is the provincial attack,started by the federal Tories( with regards to Bill C-377) to attack the Rand Formula and "compulsory" union membership.As I have illustrated many times,we work under the framework of Agency Shop" in this province and no one...NO ONE... is forced to join a union against his/her will...

It's about pitting one worker against the other and forcing individual union locals to represent free ride members to the financial detriment of that local...

And it,by definition,id designed to make people poorer under the guise of "personal freedom" and is if being heavily lobbied by corporate entities who have an all too sympathetic ear in Ottawa,and clearly,in opposition at Queens Park...

I don't need a union. Who cares?

[dre]

I've suspended my personal policy of putting folks like you on ignore for the moment because this is far too important...

Seriously,what planet are you living on???

Do you understand the precedent setting nature that this proposed legislation by Hudak would have?

Their is no way on God's green earth that this will only apply to the public sector!

It will,necessarily,apply to the private sector as well!!

And it's designed to do so!!!

I have my problems with the public sector also,however,this is definately NOT what this is about...It is the provincial attack,started by the federal Tories( with regards to Bill C-377) to attack the Rand Formula and "compulsory" union membership.As I have illustrated many times,we work under the framework of Agency Shop" in this province and no one...NO ONE... is forced to join a union against his/her will...

It's about pitting one worker against the other and forcing individual union locals to represent free ride members to the financial detriment of that local...

And it,by definition,is designed to make people poorer under the guise of "personal freedom" and is being heavily lobbied by corporate entities who have an all too sympathetic ear in Ottawa,and clearly,in opposition at Queens Park...

Like I said before. Iv never such contempt directed at the people in society who do the real work... by a bunch of people that shuffle paper for a living.

[Jack Weber]

Like I said before. Iv never such contempt directed at the people in society who do the real work... by a bunch of people that shuffle paper for a living.

That's it,isn't it...

Over the last 30 years,people have almost become conditioned to demand those that make more than them make less!!...

Never understanding that if that happens,thier standard of living will stagnate or even drop!!!

And the downward spiral of our standard of living and working conditions continue and the folks at the top laugh at all of us because we've allowed ourselves to be conned and duped by those who would want to keep us down...

[bush_cheney2004]

It applies there...It applies here...

Right to Work for less...

AFL-CIO = American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations

[Wild Bill]

And the downward spiral of our standard of living and working conditions continue and the folks at the top laugh at all of us because we've allowed ourselves to be conned and duped by those who would want to keep us down...

Jack, I don't pretend to understand all the ramifications of changes to the law about unions but one thing I do know - we are going to keep losing jobs no matter what new laws might be enacted!

That being said, can you name any instance in the last decade or so where having a union had saved jobs?

Can you name any instance where having a union has attracted new employers to any town or region? Where having a union has CREATED jobs?

Seems to me we're arguing politics on the deck of the Titanic...

[Shady]

Can you name any instance where having a union has attracted new employers to any town or region? Where having a union has CREATED jobs?

They don't. The whole purpose of a union is to negotiate higher pay for less work. Which is completely contrary to how a business becomes successful in the first place. In essense, unions work against the interests of the companies that were originally created.

[punked]

Slow your role here people. In actual economics not what you guys are talking about there are actually wage models. Now because of the union wage premium, organizations may want to avoid unionization. The easiest way for them to do this is to offer supracompetitive wages which means just for the fact that unions exist lots and lots of people get paid a higher wage. Just because they exist. Stop trying to make a very complex problem a simple one because you don't to put the time to understand all the variables.

[Topaz]

You're right. They will be working for less. Because the tax payer shouldn't be subsidizing inflated, unrealistic salaries and benefits that aren't based in economic reality.

From the way Hudak was talking on CKLW radio, he means ALL unions and especially the auto sector. After he left, the calls were coming in and they were all negative towards his ideas. BTW, what is a realistic wage to you? The cost of living in Canada is higher than were most of these jobs go, except the US,so like it or not workers here have to have a fair wage to be able to have a house, car and education for thir kids and one can't do that on 10.25.

[Peeves]

From the way Hudak was talking on CKLW radio, he means ALL unions and especially the auto sector. After he left, the calls were coming in and they were all negative towards his ideas. BTW, what is a realistic wage to you? The cost of living in Canada is higher than were most of these jobs go, except the US,so like it or not workers here have to have a fair wage to be able to have a house, car and education for thir kids and one can't do that on 10.25.

A fair wage? That would be the $'s paid (and with benefits included), for the complexity,requirements and intricacies of the job and of course with due consideration of danger and physical requirements.

However, life is not 'fair.'

Janitors in schools might make more money and (unionized) have job security well beyond other more demanding jobs.

Similarly, working conditions should be a factor. I.E. a postie shouldn't be making more than a teacher, but perhaps more than a janitor.

Is the job one with a good deal of responsibility with others dependent on it? Is there hazardous aspects to the job?

Fair wage should also recognize not only the benefits, pension, health care , environment, flex hours and vacation time, but also the stress perhaps. But, life isn't fair. Many public service workers as in city workers, have far more employees than necessary, while private industry might have piece work and manufacturing expectations/day/hour.

Should someone working as a janitor in a school in Toronto expect higher wages than in Dunnville because the cost of living is higher?
Should a janitor doing the same type of work in a non union shop be considered under paid if their wages are less, or, is the janitor in the union job overpaid for their duties and responsibilities and JOB SECURITY.

Their is no 'fair wage.'

That a political leader in a native reserve can be paid in six figures when there's only 3,500 'residents', is absurd.

That someone in a public service job that in reality only performs three hours work a day, is watching porn the rest of the time, is unlikely to EVER be fired or criticized and is paid 30% more than the private sector worker doing (8 hrs./day), work of the same sort...well that's just not fair is it.