115 replies to this topic

[bush_cheney2004]

Defense from what? The system works fine, much better than yours.

Sure it does...just ask First Nations or "visible minorities".

We had our little scare with religious funding (for Christians) by the conservatives in Ontario, they got their asses handed to them as a result, so it's doubtful anybody will go there again.

It doesn't matter what happens in Ontariario so long as you can point attention elsewhere.

It's not theoretically perfect, but works well in practice. Just like our abortion (lack of) laws. Remember that politics is the art of the possible. That's why you have such a dog's breakfast of new healthcare legislation. Because something sane, like our system, just wasn't possible down there.

Give me a break....Canada didn't get off its religious ass when it came to abortions until the Americans busted it wide open. Late term abortions aren't even available in some provinces so guess where patients go? Kansas!

Edited by bush_cheney2004, 07 July 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Michael Hardner]

Again, I point to this thread, exhibit A, a clear evidence of the smug anti-Americanism that is endemic to the Canadian left.

There is something of the word *smug* that struck me as wrong in this context, so I looked up the definition again and found the word 'complacent' in there. Certainly when education is under attack from the nuclear morons of the Tea Party, complacency can't be the charge.

We on these boards have had a fair amount of debate on the stupider actions of populists of left and right, so smugness doesn't seem like the right charge.

The reality is that America guarantees a much greater degree of individual sovereignty and protection from governmental discrimination than in Canada. Bush_cheney2004 accurately points out the hypocrisy given the discrimination that is enshrined in some of Canada's laws, although I think this is now primarily at the provincial level. There's a lot more institutionalized racism, sexism, and other unjustifiable discriminations codified into law in Canada, but we can address that later. Canada does not have the moral high ground compared to the USA when it comes to protections from religious, racial, or other unjustifiable discriminations practised by the government. So the smugness from the Canadian left here is quite rich.

Yes, it's wrong to say that one's own country is above reproach on such matters - especially Canada.

But... it is the absolutely comic situation in Louisiana that is the rich part. Allow the leftists a laugh now, and you'll get yours back later.

Alright, so the Louisiana Republican state legislator was silly not to realise that this change to the funding mechanism of education would also fund religious Muslim schools. Somehow this translates to American "public institutions being taken over by religious and private interests"? Talk about hysteria.

Well that's kind of the whole point of it isn't it ? I just don't understand why they're ok with one kind of religious take over and not another.

Also, I don't think the legislator was silly, just stupid and ignorant. Nobody should look down on such disadvantaged persons, it's true, but nobody should vote for them either.

Also, I'd like to go on record to say that I do think religious rights in schooling need to be secured. The recent Ontario political situation is evidence of that.

[bush_cheney2004]

Also, I don't think the legislator was silly, just stupid and ignorant. Nobody should look down on such disadvantaged persons, it's true, but nobody should vote for them either.

Poppycock...people should vote for whomever they please.

[kraychik]

There is a constitutional obstacle here in the form of the Establishment Clause.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

Unfortunately, there are some unique elements to Islam which make is disconcerting. Its scope of ambition and control over people's lives and its anti-democratic nature justifiably concern those that don't want to fund religious Muslim schools. Now, of course Islam isn't monolithic and not all religious Muslim schools are the same, but there is good reason to be concerned with the consequences of this reform to the funding of education considering that Islam is a religion unlike any other.

[Michael Hardner]

Poppycock...people should vote for whomever they please.

Clearly, most Americans agree with you. "Who'd you rather have a beer with" gets you the results you deserve.

Have at it. We prefer to elect unlikeable people with strong vision and good ideas.

[Shady]

Again, I point to this thread, exhibit A, a clear evidence of the smug anti-Americanism that is endemic to the Canadian left.

Exactly right. I love the characterization of the Tea Party DEMANDING this too. It's rich.

[Canuckistani]

Sure it does...just ask First Nations or "visible minorities".

You have no problems with FN's or vis minorities? Ha ha. Actually we're the country others look to for successfully dealing with large scale immigration of visible minorities. Don't see how schoolboards in Ontario have anything to do with FN problems.

It doesn't matter what happens in Ontariario so long as you can point attention elsewhere.

I don't know what this means.

Give me a break....Canada didn't get off its religious ass when it came to abortions until the Americans busted it wide open. Late term abortions aren't even available in some provinces so guess where patients go? Kansas!

What universe do you live in? Canada's supreme court nullified our abortion laws after a number of challenges. No new laws were put in place. (So nothing to do with the US) Doctors in Canada have decided to put restrictions on when they are actually willing to perform abortions. I totally agree with that, would like to see that legislated, so we don't do late term and partial birth - might as well just do a cesarean at that point.

[Michael Hardner]

Exactly right. I love the characterization of the Tea Party DEMANDING this too. It's rich.

Rich is the turn of the worm that resulted in Imams opening schools under legislation supported by the Tea Party. Nothing on this thread tops that, if only for sheer humour.

Like I say, take the joke - you'll get to give it next time. Justin Trudeau is still in politics after all.

[Shady]

Rich is the turn of the worm that resulted in Imams opening schools under legislation supported by the Tea Party. Nothing on this thread tops that, if only for sheer humour.

Like I say, take the joke - you'll get to give it next time. Justin Trudeau is still in politics after all.

But vouchers are a good policy, regardless of whether "evil" Muslims are treated equally.

[bush_cheney2004]

You have no problems with FN's or vis minorities? Ha ha. Actually we're the country others look to for successfully dealing with large scale immigration of visible minorities. Don't see how schoolboards in Ontario have anything to do with FN problems.

The point being made was oppressive government policies implemented through religious organizations.

I don't know what this means.

What that means is that some Canadians will ignore and accept such things as long as they can convince themselves that it is far worse "down south".

What universe do you live in? Canada's supreme court nullified our abortion laws after a number of challenges. No new laws were put in place. (So nothing to do with the US) Doctors in Canada have decided to put restrictions on when they are actually willing to perform abortions. I totally agree with that, would like to see that legislated, so we don't do late term and partial birth - might as well just do a cesarean at that point.

No need to re-debate the history of abortion in Canada or the USA as it has been done in many previous threads. The single point was that Canada lagged behind in so called abortion rights, and even to this day has a very real barrier to access because of funding and/or refusals by health care professionals, leading to the absurd situation wherein Canadians travel to Kansas (of all places) to get abortions.

[kraychik]

Rich is the turn of the worm that resulted in Imams opening schools under legislation supported by the Tea Party. Nothing on this thread tops that, if only for sheer humour.

Like I say, take the joke - you'll get to give it next time. Justin Trudeau is still in politics after all.

The overwhelming majority of the Tea Party is far more well-verses in American legalities than you are. The assertion that the Tea Party as a movement was blindsided by this consequence of the educational funding reform is a lie.

[Michael Hardner]

But vouchers are a good policy, regardless of whether "evil" Muslims are treated equally.

Could be... but that's for another thread...

[Michael Hardner]

The overwhelming majority of the Tea Party is far more well-verses in American legalities than you are.

Ok... just.... not.... their.... legislators ?

The assertion that the Tea Party as a movement was blindsided by this consequence of the educational funding reform is a lie.

See the Republican quoted in the OP.

[Canuckistani]

The point being made was oppressive government policies implemented through religious organizations.

Such as?

What that means is that some Canadians will ignore and accept such things as long as they can convince themselves that it is far worse "down south".

Got nothing to do with down south at all. Just that the system doesn't seem very broken, and trying to fix it might make things worse instead of better. It's complacency because there's no real problem. When one arises, attitudes will change.

No need to re-debate the history of abortion in Canada or the USA as it has been done in many previous threads. The single point was that Canada lagged behind in so called abortion rights, and even to this day has a very real barrier to access because of funding and/or refusals by health care professionals, leading to the absurd situation wherein Canadians travel to Kansas (of all places) to get abortions.

All true. But, you all have access problems too, and a lot more religious interference in your abortion laws and abortion providers. We did lag behind, but we don't anymore. That was then, this is now. As for women travelling to Kansas, that's sad, because I'm not in favor of late term abortions anyway. I would outlaw them, so women would still have to travel to Kansas. Until your religious right manages to shut down abortions all together, that is. Then American women will flood across to Canada.

[kraychik]

Ok... just.... not.... their.... legislators ?



See the Republican quoted in the OP.

You should try having a conversation with a Tea Party person one day, it'll dispel the myths you subscribe to after watching thirty-second CBC commentary clips with false allegations of overt racism and extreme religiosity.

This legislator lady doesn't represent the Tea Party, and perhaps she was lying in some pathetic attempt to insulate her from criticism she felt would come her way.

Edited by kraychik, 07 July 2012 - 12:00 PM.