185 replies to this topic

[wyly]

Its working then? Good to know, how hip deep would we be in murderers if it wasn't for basketball? It's funny, i didn't know that gang members don't play.

awesome reading comprehension skills you've got there...

[wyly]

If you have proof I would like to see it, because how it seems to me is that you can point at the US and say that harsher sentences do not reduce violent crime, and then when someone points out that harsher sentences DO reduce violent crime you state its because of bad record keeping. Anything that proves your point is right, anything that disproves your point is wrong.

nah cyber is right find another country to use as your example, china has a lot of issues with "face" and a really really dodgy legal system...china won't even admit Tiananmen Square massacre occurred and you expect anyone to trust their criminal stats?

[cybercoma]

nowhere in this thread have posted people should be charged with murder for threatening, I did throw out my opinion that possession of an illegal handgun should put them away for 20yrs...now if you want to suggest 15yrs for possession of an illegal handgun and an extra 5 for using it in a crime I'd be good with that...

Do you really not see how silly that is?

Murder someone and you get 5 years for the murder. Possess a gun and you get three times that sentence.

How about we keep the total sentence the same: 20 years. Except we flip your other numbers. You get 5 years for possession of an illegal firearm and 15 tacked onto it for murdering someone (if not more).

[Signals.Cpl]

nah cyber is right find another country to use as your example, china has a lot of issues with "face" and a really really dodgy legal system...china won't even admit Tiananmen Square massacre occurred and you expect anyone to trust their criminal stats?

How about Saudi Arabia? I don't think it gets tougher than that, yet they have lower homicide rate than Canada. What about Poland? I don't think their laws are too lenient and they have a low homicide rate.

[Signals.Cpl]

Do you really not see how silly that is?

Murder someone and you get 5 years for the murder. Possess a gun and you get three times that sentence.

How about we keep the total sentence the same: 20 years. Except we flip your other numbers. You get 5 years for possession of an illegal firearm and 15 tacked onto it for murdering someone (if not more).

15 years for possessing an illegal weapon, 5 years for using said weapon in a crime... then and only then do we start discussing the actual crime, if its murder add another 20 years.

[wyly]

15 years for possessing an illegal weapon, 5 years for using said weapon in a crime... then and only then do we start discussing the actual crime, if its murder add another 20 years.

murder is 25...sometimes longer in special cases...

[wyly]

How about Saudi Arabia? I don't think it gets tougher than that, yet they have lower homicide rate than Canada. What about Poland? I don't think their laws are too lenient and they have a low homicide rate.

or Norway, it has very lenient sentencing and a much lower crime rate...but you need to be careful there too Norway has a very different culture, cultural characteristics can really effect stats...to compare to Canada you'll need to look at similar countries, maybe Australia or New Zealand

[wyly]

Do you really not see how silly that is?

Murder someone and you get 5 years for the murder. Possess a gun and you get three times that sentence.

How about we keep the total sentence the same: 20 years. Except we flip your other numbers. You get 5 years for possession of an illegal firearm and 15 tacked onto it for murdering someone (if not more).

aah now we're negotiating...10 possession, 15 for use in a crime, 20 for firing(attempted murder), 25 for murder...

I'm giving up 10yrs from my original 20 here cyber

[cybercoma]

Sorry. I read it earlier, but I'm still chuckling about Saudi Arabia.

[Derek L]

I am using statistics from a legitimate organization, whereas you are telling me those statistics are useless because you assume China is disorganized and dishonest, until you present facts to disprove the statistics and/or support your claims I will stick to my position.

Let’s see those statistics……….And to what “legitimate organization” do you speak?

[Signals.Cpl]

murder is 25...sometimes longer in special cases...

Tag on 20 years for possessing and using an illegal weapon, and 20 years for each additional murder.

[Signals.Cpl]

or Norway, it has very lenient sentencing and a much lower crime rate...but you need to be careful there too Norway has a very different culture, cultural characteristics can really effect stats...to compare to Canada you'll need to look at similar countries, maybe Australia or New Zealand

Yeah, and some people always point to the US when someone suggest tougher punishment, one countries results will not necessarily mean the same results for another. Every time someone says we need tougher laws, it always comes back that " it hasn't worked for the US" ignoring and playing down that it has worked for other countries without understanding or bothering to see that there are more dimensions to lowering crime than just the punishment or rehabilitation.

[Signals.Cpl]

Let’s see those statistics……….And to what “legitimate organization” do you speak?

http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNODC&f=tableCode%3A1

[mentalfloss]

YOU trying to make out like I"M the one who lacks concern! Unbelievable!

If you want to wrongly interpret it that way, that's fine.

I was simply questioning your Utilitarian motive. In this case, a Utilitarian would likely think this is an isolated event that has no reflection on the level of crime in the city.

[Wild Bill]

If you want to wrongly interpret it that way, that's fine.

I was simply questioning your Utilitarian motive. In this case, a Utilitarian would likely think this is an isolated event that has no reflection on the level of crime in the city.

Why on earth would he think such a thing? The papers are full of reports of such shootings! Why do you think all the politicos and talking heads are lining up for the cameras?