120 replies to this topic

[j44]

I would agree but he didn't remove him. The question is why, you can say a lot of Steven J Harper but I have never thought him to be one to cover up other peoples mistakes unless it could be tied back to him. Why hasn't he done with MacKay yet? The only thing I think of is MacKay knows something.

I think it is more or less just politics than some deep dark secret. McKay being from the MAritimes, he is liked by the soldiers, PC, etc.

I doubt Harper will turf McKay. McKay's wife is a well regarded Iranian born human rights activist. To dump McKay would be to open a floodgate of racism accusations against the Conservatives.

I don't think he will either but I doubt for that reason. It isn't like Harper cares what the left of the NDP thinks.

Edited by j44, 18 July 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[Wild Bill]

I would agree but he didn't remove him. The question is why, you can say a lot of Steven J Harper but I have never thought him to be one to cover up other peoples mistakes unless it could be tied back to him. Why hasn't he done with MacKay yet? The only thing I think of is MacKay knows something.

I don't know how old you are, punked. Or how good of a memory you possess. I'm surprised that you attribute McKay's longevity in cabinet to some sort of skullduggery when the answer is open and obvious!

Harper owes McKay for making the Alliance/Pc merger happen! That is a debt that will run in perpetuity! If Harper were to ever appear to demote McKay it could open a giant rift within their party.

Perhaps after all this time a rift would not happen but there are also other powerful political factors. It was Mulroney who coined the famous term "you dance with who brung ya!", meaning that you should never forget who helped you in politics. The merger might never have happened if McKay had not have greased the wheels! It even took a double cross of David Orchard, although many if not most would have argued that even a double cross of Orchard was justified, since allowing Orchard to have his way would have spelled the end of the PC party that much faster.

Anyhow, Harper really has little or no choice. If McKay were truly competent there are other more high profile cabinet posts but he's not, so what else can he do with McKay?

[punked]

I don't know how old you are, punked. Or how good of a memory you possess. I'm surprised that you attribute McKay's longevity in cabinet to some sort of skullduggery when the answer is open and obvious!

Harper owes McKay for making the Alliance/Pc merger happen! That is a debt that will run in perpetuity! If Harper were to ever appear to demote McKay it could open a giant rift within their party.

Perhaps after all this time a rift would not happen but there are also other powerful political factors. It was Mulroney who coined the famous term "you dance with who brung ya!", meaning that you should never forget who helped you in politics. The merger might never have happened if McKay had not have greased the wheels! It even took a double cross of David Orchard, although many if not most would have argued that even a double cross of Orchard was justified, since allowing Orchard to have his way would have spelled the end of the PC party that much faster.

Anyhow, Harper really has little or no choice. If McKay were truly competent there are other more high profile cabinet posts but he's not, so what else can he do with McKay?

Maybe this statement is true but to suffer fools one of the biggest part of the budget in this country is not only bad governance but dangerous. I wouldn't think any debt should be worth the mistakes that have been made at DND over the last few years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Edited by punked, 18 July 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[j44]

This is only a hunch and maybe not likely but Is it possible Harper is letting McKay dig is own grave? I would bet Harper doesn't want Peter as leader and as long as he has these high profile screw ups he gets further and further from being Harper's replacement.

[punked]

This is only a hunch and maybe not likely but Is it possible Harper is letting McKay dig is own grave? I would bet Harper doesn't want Peter as leader and as long as he has these high profile screw ups he gets further and further from being Harper's replacement.

That sounds like the Harper I know.

[Shakeyhands]

I doubt Harper will turf McKay. McKay's wife is a well regarded Iranian born human rights activist. To dump McKay would be to open a floodgate of racism accusations against the Conservatives.

A little something extra in the tea this afternoon???????? Pot scones??????

[Argus]

McKay is to Harper what Clark was to Mulroney. He kind of has to keep him around for the sake of party unity. But Mulroney was able to find something Clark was reasonable competent at, and Harper has yet to find that niche for McKay. But bringing the mandarins at DND into line, both civilian and military, requires a strong hand. It requires someone smart who's capable of being a nasty SOB, and I can't think of anyone better for it than Baird. I agree Baird is doing nicely at Foreign Affairs, but it's not exactly a trying post given the general lack of interest most Canadians have for what's going on out there. Baird knows he's Harper's go-to guy and that DND has been causing them a lot of grief over the past year. So I doubt he'd see it as a demotion.

[capricorn]

A little something extra in the tea this afternoon???????? Pot scones??????

[cybercoma]

McKay is to Harper what Clark was to Mulroney. He kind of has to keep him around for the sake of party unity. But Mulroney was able to find something Clark was reasonable competent at, and Harper has yet to find that niche for McKay. But bringing the mandarins at DND into line, both civilian and military, requires a strong hand. It requires someone smart who's capable of being a nasty SOB, and I can't think of anyone better for it than Baird. I agree Baird is doing nicely at Foreign Affairs, but it's not exactly a trying post given the general lack of interest most Canadians have for what's going on out there. Baird knows he's Harper's go-to guy and that DND has been causing them a lot of grief over the past year. So I doubt he'd see it as a demotion.

I think a simple switch between Baird and MacKay would be ideal for the CPC. MacKay would probably make a pretty good Min. of FA.

[Wild Bill]

Maybe this statement is true but to suffer fools one of the biggest part of the budget in this country is not only bad governance but dangerous. I wouldn't think any debt should be worth the mistakes that have been made at DND over the last few years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, I've no doubt Harper is keeping a close watch on him. Also, trading McKay for Baird would only leave Baird's old role vulnerable to McKay's incompetence, possibly even more damaging to the country.

What's more, they are all politicians after all and my experience once again tells me that politicians don't worry so much about the job being done right and proper for the country as how they themselves APPEAR to the rest of the country! The ship might sink but as long as they looked like good officers they don't really care!

Remember, I lived through Bob Rae's term here in Ontario and now see pictures on the news of $180 million dollar power plant fiascos all for political advantage during an election. I drive the Red Hill Creek Expressway here in Hamilton quite often, the one that ole Bob screwed up after over 30 years of effort by so many here to get the damn thing accomplished, in a useful way. My sense of outrage has been blunted over the years. Bang your head against the wall long enough and you can't help but become a bit numb...

Edited by Wild Bill, 18 July 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[punked]

Well, I've no doubt Harper is keeping a close watch on him. Also, trading McKay for Baird would only leave Baird's old role vulnerable to McKay's incompetence, possibly even more damaging to the country.

What's more, they are all politicians after all and my experience once again tells me that politicians don't worry so much about the job being done right and proper for the country as how they themselves APPEAR to the rest of the country! The ship might sink but as long as they looked like good officers they don't really care!

Remember, I lived through Bob Rae's term here in Ontario and now see pictures on the news of $180 million dollar power plant fiascos all for political advantage during an election. My sense of outrage has been blunted over the years. Bang your head against the wall long enough and you can't help but become a bit numb...

Harper has over 100 MPs are you telling me only 1 of them can do this job. Not a deep bench eh?

[Wild Bill]

Harper has over 100 MPs are you telling me only 1 of them can do this job. Not a deep bench eh?

Once again, you put words in my mouth and twist my meaning. I NEVER said that!

There are likely a lot of good choices. That's not relevant! You are insisting on looking at the situation in terms of having the best man for getting the job accomplished in the best manner. That is NOT the way things work in politics! To believe otherwise is to be naive in the extreme.

If we wanted the job done in the best and most cost-effective manner we would never allow the government to manage it! We would simply define the goals of a contract and turn it over to the private sector. If we were not happy with the results we could go to the courts to sort it out, like any contract.

[Derek L]

So now we learn the reason that big truck purchase bid was cancelled at the very last minute. DND had, since it got permission to buy the trucks, added on so many bells and whistles it had almost doubled the price. They were going to let out bids on a $770 million contract when they had only gotten permission to spend $400.

Citizen

It's been obvious for some time that McKay is not the man to run DND. Whether he's an idiot or an absentee or just totally in the pockets of the generals and bureaucrats he seems largely oblivious to what's going on and incapable of reigning in his people.

An appropriate change would seem to be to have him and John Baird switch jobs. McKay seems tailor made for the wine and cheese party set, and the bureaucrats at DND really deserve John Baird. He's also been Harper's hatchet man for troublesome jobs since day one of this government, and getting control of these people (and firing lots of them) would seem to be something well within his capabilities.

To the article:

The Defence Department had received government approval in 2009 to move forward with the $430 million purchase of 1,500 off-the-shelf medium-sized trucks. But in subsequent years department and military officials began adding more capabilities to what they wanted in the vehicles, bumping the estimated cost to between $730 million and $800 million.

In other words, mine and IED protection……….those greedy bastards.

They also faced criticism from the auditor general for their purchase of Chinook helicopters, which will be based in Petawawa. That deal was supposed to cost $2 billion but the price tag ballooned to almost $5 billion according to the auditor general, after military officials started adding more capabilities.

Bullshit.

Either the Auditor General made a “mistake” or the media doesn’t understand what was included when DND received preliminary project approval in ‘06 and effective approval in ‘09:

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201010_06_e_34289.html#ex6


The initial estimate didn’t include estimates for in-service support, which the initial submission mentioned……….When said price was included, the project “doubled” in cost.

[bush_cheney2004]

...In other words, mine and IED protection……….those greedy bastards.

Add-ons

DND will also buy key add-ons, including:

300 SMP armor protection systems. Every SMP truck must be able to accept the up-armoring kits, even if only a small percentage of them can be armored at any one time.

895 Specially Equipped Vehicles kits (such as mobile kitchens, offices and medical or dental stations): 145 for the MilCOTS 7400s, and the rest for SMP. DEW Engineering will lead the base SEV contract, and as of April 2012, Navistar reports that they had installed 35 SEVs on their 7400 series trucks.

There’s also a separate contract for “kitting” (modifying) the SEV base shelters. The RFP was released in October 2011, and an award is now expected in Fall 2012, with deliveries beginning in Summer 2013 and running to Summer 2016.

[Derek L]

Add-ons

DND will also buy key add-ons, including:

300 SMP armor protection systems. Every SMP truck must be able to accept the up-armoring kits, even if only a small percentage of them can be armored at any one time.

895 Specially Equipped Vehicles kits (such as mobile kitchens, offices and medical or dental stations): 145 for the MilCOTS 7400s, and the rest for SMP. DEW Engineering will lead the base SEV contract, and as of April 2012, Navistar reports that they had installed 35 SEVs on their 7400 series trucks.

There’s also a separate contract for “kitting” (modifying) the SEV base shelters. The RFP was released in October 2011, and an award is now expected in Fall 2012, with deliveries beginning in Summer 2013 and running to Summer 2016.

And as was found during the Afghan and Iraq wars, when you “up-armour” a conventional vehicle, one puts more strain on the power train, suspension, brakes, fuel mileage etc…….So one might ask, why not just buy a truck with all that stuff already? Well……..