24 replies to this topic

[TheNewTeddy]

Curious what people think will happen with the holy land, regardless of what they think should happen. Some words on the options.

What solution
1 - This is what most people presume when talking about peace nowadays.
2 - This is, in effect, what we have now. It means, in short, no "peace" and Israel continues on as-is.
3 - This is the worst case scenario for Israel, in short, their defeat.
4 - This is a one-state created peacefully, with "cantons" perhaps where some are Jewish and others Islamic. Many similar options can fit in here.
5 - Jordan and Egypt re-annex their portions of Gaza and the WB and "Palestine" never gets to see the light of day.
6 - Similar to option 4. The land is split into a Jewish state, an Islamic state, and a 3rd state shared by both.
7 - Israel loses a war to someone not interested in Palestine and they occupy both nations.


How it comes about
1 - War. Obvious, Israel goes to war and one of the above solutions is the peace treaty.
2 - Nations like the US or the Saudis put extreme pressure to get a solution NOW and Israel/Palestine is forced to oblige
3 - Both sides come to the table on their own and work out a deal
4 - Think the recent "Great recession" but far worse, changing the dynamic, and forcing peace on both parties.


2070
1 - Israel becomes the clear winner, having gotten what they want today and more.
2 - Palestine becomes the winner with people wondering why Israel did not sue for peace when the price was a bargain.
3 - Neither side "wins" / both sides "lose" / The populace of both "sides" win / etc

[eyeball]

Curious what people think will happen with the holy land, regardless of what they think should happen.

I have faith people will still be fighting over it thousands of years from now. There's little reason to believe otherwise.

[jbg]

I don't see that there's an equivalence. There are plenty of Arab countries. The nationality of "Palestinian" is fake to begin with. For demographic reasons it may be useful to section of Gaza and most of the West Bank. Effective military control, however, mus be with Israel.

[Moonlight Graham]

I don't see that there's an equivalence. There are plenty of Arab countries. The nationality of "Palestinian" is fake to begin with. For demographic reasons it may be useful to section of Gaza and most of the West Bank. Effective military control, however, mus be with Israel.

There are plenty of white-majority nations with Jewish minority populations. "American" is a fake nationality anyways. Native Americans say GTFO. Pretty sure jbg wouldn't budge.

[American Woman]

There are plenty of white-majority nations with Jewish minority populations. "American" is a fake nationality anyways.

It's no more fake than "Canadian."

Edited to add: I see your point. For the record, I do believe Palestine also has a right to exist, but not at the expense of Israel. Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation must be respected.

Edited by American Woman, 19 August 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[American Woman]

Curious what people think will happen with the holy land, regardless of what they think should happen.

Who knows? I mean really, how would anyone have a clue? I hope that the young generation may be able to deal with it in a way the present and past generations have not been able to since they are more distanced from past conflicts and have been exposed more to a desire to care about, and think about the others. But it will take understanding on both parts, and I believe it will not happen unless there is a recognition on Palestine's part of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation, just as there are Islamic nations.

[jbg]

For the record, I do believe Palestine also has a right to exist, but not at the expense of Israel. Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation must be respected.

I appreciate your views.

Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen. The demand to weaken and ultimately eliminate Israel's Jewish identity is more or less non-negotiable.

[TheNewTeddy]

Frankly, the price of peace is as low as it's going to get for Israel. The longer the wait, the worse of a deal they will get. They have maybe a decade, at MOST, before things start to really turn around, and when they do, they'll do so quickly. Within 30 years, the 1967 boundaries without one inch deviation will be seen as "Too pro-Israel" to be accepted.

[TheNewTeddy]

FTR my preference is the following
https://maps.google....fec217cdeb22f83
However I think that by the time "peace" is found that Israel will end up looking more like this:
https://maps.google....ab6e6ba1b0af77a

Edited by TheNewTeddy, 19 August 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[jbg]

Frankly, the price of peace is as low as it's going to get for Israel. The longer the wait, the worse of a deal they will get. They have maybe a decade, at MOST, before things start to really turn around, and when they do, they'll do so quickly. Within 30 years, the 1967 boundaries without one inch deviation will be seen as "Too pro-Israel" to be accepted.

The problem is that the Palestinians will not accept any Jewish state.

[dre]

I don't see that there's an equivalence. There are plenty of Arab countries. The nationality of "Palestinian" is fake to begin with. For demographic reasons it may be useful to section of Gaza and most of the West Bank. Effective military control, however, mus be with Israel.

The nationality of "Palestinian" is fake to begin with.

This is really just idiocy. You have 4 million people living on land they were born on, with no surrounding nation (Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) either accepting them as citizens or declaring sovereignty over their territory. This is literally the best case for statehood, both from a legal and logical standpoint that is ever going to exist anywhere.

[dre]

The problem is that the Palestinians will not accept any Jewish state.

The problem is that just isnt true.

[TheNewTeddy]

The problem is that the Palestinians will not accept any Jewish state.

They will if it brings peace, and, if it happens soon.

[wyly]

The problem is that just isnt true.

ya but it helps to perpetuate the myth...it's israel that creates the political impasse, it's israel that continues to ethnically cleanse the west bank making it impossible for palestinians to accept any agreement...israel knows it's actions are illegal and the palestinians can't agree to them which plays into zionist plan to annex the entire west bank ...

[jbg]

The problem is that just isnt true.

ya but it helps to perpetuate the myth...it's israel that creates the political impasse, it's israel that continues to ethnically cleanse the west bank making it impossible for palestinians to accept any agreement...israel knows it's actions are illegal and the palestinians can't agree to them which plays into zionist plan to annex the entire west bank ...

Show me any study where Palestinians show any consensus in favor of recognizing Israel specifically as a Jewish state within any boundaries.