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mopek

Why does the US support Israel?

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Hi Everyone,

It seems that the root of the hatred from the Arab world towards the Americans (and therefore the terrorist activity) always comes back to the fact that the US decided to support Israel instead of trying to mediate the situation.

I am just curious why they do?

I have heard many wild theories but would like to know facts so I can understand this better.

Thanks

mopek :huh:

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Dear Mopek,

I too have heard many theories about the US' support of Israel. One indisputable fact is that AIPAC is the one of the, if not the, most powerful lobby group(s) in the US.

Incidentally, Osama Bin Laden has listed 6 reasons for 'waging defensive jihad' against the West, and the US support for Israel is just one of them.

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It seems that the root of the hatred from the Arab world towards the Americans (and therefore the terrorist activity) always comes back to the fact that the US decided to support Israel instead of trying to mediate the situation.
There have been numerous terrorist attacks against non-American targets too.

And I agree with Thelonius that "support" for Israel is only one issue of several.

----

I think it is somewhat false to say that the US supports Israel. The US has mediated in the past and now, among bordering countries, Egypt and Jordan recognize the State of Israel. (Syria and Lebanon do not).

On the other hand, the US is staunch in defending the right of Israel to exist.

So perhaps, that is your question.

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It is my understanding that a stong point on the agenda of neo-conservatives is the absolute right of Israel to exist. I understand that the neo-conservatives were formed shortly after world war 2 and their stance on pre-emptive warfare and Israel are based on the events of that time (certainly justifiable perspectives at the time in my view). Given that neo-conservative advisors have the ear of the president I believe that this will in part answer the question for you of why the USA supports and protects Israel.

I suppose the question might better be adressed by breaking it up. Why does the USA support Israels right to exist? And then in the second place you could ask why the USA supports specific actions/ideologies/policies etc of the Israeli government. I think the question needs to broken up into different components for you to be able to arrive at a more meaningful answer. Generalised meta-questions can lead to overgeneralised or even meaningless and irrelevant answers I think.

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We all support Israel's right to exist; many of us support the right of Palestinians to exist, also. The USA has supported Israel even when it has crossed the line and committed illegal and humanitarian abuses against Palestinian citizens. Israel has ignored even those UN regulations that are allowed to pass against them. The USA often is the sole veto protecting Israel from taking responsibilities for its actions when it crosses the line.

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I apologise Caesar. I did not mean to imply that opposing specific US actions regarding Israel would mean that an individual did not support Israels right to exist.

I was attempting to answer, in part, the question of why the US supports Israel. In the second place I was suggesting that the question needs to be refined to provide better debate. I think the question needs to be broken up into several parts with each part being addressed separately.

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Hi,

I guess I do need to break the question up and make it more specific.

I would like to know why the US watches Israel commit abuses towards the Palestinian people and then turn a blind eye -

The USA has supported Israel even when it has crossed the line and committed illegal and humanitarian abuses against Palestinian citizens.
why the USA supports specific actions/ideologies/policies etc of the Israeli government.

So far you guys have told me about the Neo-Conservatives and AIPAC .

I am on nobody's side and see the right for BOTH to exist. What I wanted to know was why the US supports Isreal "the way they do" explained above.

As a side question: What are the 6 reasons Osama Bin Laden has for waging the Jihad against the US?

Thanks :rolleyes:

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Israel's support by the u.s. is well documented.

the unites states has a very large contingent of jewish people and these people control vast amounts of u.s. wealth. Israel opened its borders to foreign immigration of jewish people around the time of the acquisition of palestine. an estimated 100,000 u.s. voting citizens live in Israel, many in the occupied territories.

the u.s. has stronger ties to isreal than any other middle eastern country. this makes it a very important ally, not adversary, in this oil rich area. this situation is further capitalized on by Israel in the form of military aide etc...

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It's simple: America supports Israel because Christians in America support Israel.

Christians constitute the biggest voting block in the USA. No political candidate can get elected if the Christians are opposed. Christians in the USA are united in their support of Israel.

Christians believe that every word in the Bible is true. Their support for Israel comes directly from the Bible. Most importantly it comes from Revelation, the last book of the Bible.

In order for the second coming of Christ to occur several things must happen. One of them is the Jews returning to Israel and becoming a state and being in control of Jerusalem.

There you go, hope this helps. :)

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Israel and the US are allies. The US supplies Israel with military equipment and some protection from the Arab states that are opposed to Israel's existence. Israel in return helps the US in the region with their oil interests. For example it was Israel that actually located where Saddam was hiding and tipped off the US who went in and captured him for the press to film and to be used as part of their war propaganda. That Israel located Saddam was publicised in a credible Australian online newspaper at the time the incident was going down, but never made it to the NA media as far as I know.

There is no question that Israel has a very effective lobby group in DC. This aspect about Christians wanting to support Israel because it is in the bible is in reference to fundamentalist Christians. There is a difference.

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Mopek, the US supports Israel because it is the only democracy in the Mid East (except for Iraq now). Democracies tend to stick together. The US knows that the Arabic countries in the ME would like nothing better than to commit another Hitlerian genocide on the Israeli people. The Arab dictators need the Israeli distraction so their citizens are occupied with Jew-hatred instead of questioning why their countries are poor and contribute little, if anything, to the world. That's why the Saddams of the world were issuing $25,000 cheques to the families of dead displaced Arabs from Jordan (Palestinians) who committed homicide bombings; the murderous deathcult that commits atrocity after atrocity on Israeli men, women, and children (some Americans have been killed too).

Additionally, the US has to use its veto power in the corrupt UN to halt the UN resolutions that the dictator-laden UN constantly imposes on Israel.

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Hi Everyone,

It seems that the root of the hatred from the Arab world towards the Americans (and therefore the terrorist activity) always comes back to the fact that the US decided to support Israel instead of trying to mediate the situation.

I am just curious why they do?

I have heard many wild theories but would like to know facts so I can understand this better.

mopek  :huh:

Historically, the US supported the creation of Israel for a variety of reasons, including guilt over the Holocaust, and local Jewish financial and voter support. Bigotry of a sort probably played a part, too. In the beginning, the Jewish state was largely run by European Jews, so it was Europeans against Arabs, who were seen as inferiors and savages to some extent. Arab attacks against Israel, which it defeated, gave it an aura of the tough little guy defending itself against hordes of savages. And the US has a culture which sympathises with the little guy.

As the cold war developed Israel was a staunch US allie in a very difficult part of the world. Again, it was mostly European, and a democracy. Most of the Arab world was hostile to the US, and most of the Arab states flirted strongly with the Soviets, getting Soviet military equipment and advisors. This only drove the US to support Israel and its defence more.

Then came the era of terrorism, where again, the terrorists were operating against Isreal and the US, and Israel proved an invaluable intelligence asset against them. They were also able to engage in nasty acts the US couldn't. And again, the Israeli leadership is largely modern, European and democratic, while the Arab states were run by dictators and ruled by religious fanaticism.

Now we are in the "modern era". The years of the Intifada have certainly produced a lot of bad publicity for Israel. But the Israelis are still a democracy, they and the US still have a shared enemy in terrorists, domestic politcal pressure from Jewish groups and Christian groups continues to urge support for Israel, and 50 years of shared history operating together also make for fast friendships. The US supports Israel because it has always supported Israel, and Israel's enemies are seen, by and large, as fanatics who are intrinsically hostile to the US and the western way of life. If Israel was beating on poor, innocent, non-violent people ... but it's not. For every outrage Israel perpetrates there is an outrage from the Arabs to justify it. So why would the US abandon Israel at this point?

I would agree, btw, that the disadvantages of supporting Israel in this day far outweigh the advantages. It would be in the US' own interest to withdraw at least some of it's support from Israel, especially if Israel isn't willing to do more to bring about peace, ie, abandoning all the settlements.

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Dear Argus,

Most of the Arab world was hostile to the US, and most of the Arab states flirted strongly with the Soviets, getting Soviet military equipment and advisors. This only drove the US to support Israel and its defence more.
Only later was this true, for the USSR rushed to be the first to recognize Israel as a state and tried to sell them arms from day one. They saw Israel a 'brotherly socialist nation' and thought, incorrectly, that they could exert influence over them.

Dear Montgomery Burns,

Mopek, the US supports Israel because it is the only democracy in the Mid East (except for Iraq now). Democracies tend to stick together.
Israel is only a pseudo-democracy, as they have an 'apartheid policy' where only Jews can vote.

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theloniusfleabag:

Israel is only a pseudo-democracy, as they have an 'apartheid policy' where only Jews can vote.

Arabs are granted full citizenship and have the right to vote in Israel, even Arab women.

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Dear Montgomery Burns,

I stand corrected. This bit is taken from www.factsofisrael.com

About one million Arab Muslims are Israeli citizens that have full rights, including the right to vote. See the Democracy page for more details.
However, another site (electronicintifada.com) puts the population numbers at...
The population of Palestinians living in Israel, the Occupied Gaza Strip, Occupied East Jerusalem and rest of the Occupied West Bank combined now exceeds the number of Israeli Jews, a U.S. government report has revealed.

The Palestinian population stands at over 5.3 million while the Jewish population stands at 5.2 million.

The figures come from the U.S. State Department's annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2004. The report provided population figures for each of these territorial units separately but failed to connect all the dots to arrive at the explosive new demographic reality that an Israeli Jewish minority now rules over a larger number of Palestinians living between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River

So those 'Palestinians' under occupation don't get to vote...of course, it would be foolhardy for Israel to let them, or to grant them citizenship, lest Israel have to abandon democracy.

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The Palestinian population stands at over 5.3 million while the Jewish population stands at 5.2 million.

The figures come from the U.S. State Department's annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2004. The report provided population figures for each of these territorial units separately but failed to connect all the dots to arrive at the explosive new demographic reality that an Israeli Jewish minority now rules over a larger number of Palestinians living between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River

So those 'Palestinians' under occupation don't get to vote...of course, it would be foolhardy for Israel to let them, or to grant them citizenship, lest Israel have to abandon democracy.

Yes, and this has been one of the major sticking points in Israeli/Palestinian negotiatons (along with ownership of Jerusalem). The Palestinians continue to insist on "the right of return" which is the right of any Palestinian, or their descendants who lived in what is now Israel but fled decades ago to return and live there again .The Israelis' lack of enthusiasm for the thought of millions of hostile, rapidly breeding Muslims living within the borders of the state of Israel is understandable.

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Christians believe that every word in the Bible is true

I'm not sure how you can speak for every Christian. Support for Israel goes far beyond whether one is Christian or not. There are many non-Christians, especially in American politics that support Israel, and support its right to exist.

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Dear Shady,

I'm not sure how you can speak for every Christian. Support for Israel goes far beyond whether one is Christian or not. There are many non-Christians, especially in American politics that support Israel, and support its right to exist.
It is intersting to note that both Muslims and Jews both deride Christians as 'Idol Worshippers'. Jews are forbidden to enter 'unholy Christian sites' such as churches, except in extremely rare circumstances, for example.

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Dear Shady,
I'm not sure how you can speak for every Christian. Support for Israel goes far beyond whether one is Christian or not. There are many non-Christians, especially in American politics that support Israel, and support its right to exist.
It is intersting to note that both Muslims and Jews both deride Christians as 'Idol Worshippers'. Jews are forbidden to enter 'unholy Christian sites' such as churches, except in extremely rare circumstances, for example.

And Catholics are forbidden to have sex outside marriage.

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Theloniusfleabag, I think you are referring to electronicintifada.net, not dot com.

I don't trust anything they report, except for maybe "and" and "the". It's a radical pro-Palestinian, terror-enabling website.

I have faith that you can do better than that. :)

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Dear Montgomery Burns,

Theloniusfleabag, I think you are referring to electronicintifada.net, not dot com.
Again, I stand corrected. I googled 'palestinian population' and it was one of the few sites with hard numbers that came up, and I didn't paste the link, just typed it quickly (and obviously erroneously).
I don't trust anything they report, except for maybe "and" and "the". It's a radical pro-Palestinian, terror-enabling website.
I don't expect too much else but one-sided bias from 90% of news, internet etc. anyway, especially with the word 'Intifada' in the name. Mind you, there is a great book by Ze'ef Schiff and Ehud Ya'ari called "Intifada" which is well worth a read. Very pragmatic, a stellar bit from 'Israel's two top reporters'.

I only wished to reference the numbers.

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Mopek, the US supports Israel because it is the only democracy in the Mid East (except for Iraq now).  Democracies tend to stick together. 
Montgomery: The USA has a deal with Saudi Arabia to PREVENT DEMOCRACY from ever threatening the Saudi royal family.... Does that sound like a solid "pro-democracy" deal....

The USA organized and executed a coup to take out the democratically elected Mossadegh government in Iran and placed the Shah of Iran in power in the 1950s. Does this sound "pro-democracy".

And if you'll remember, (but I suspect your selective memory will not) Saddam Hussain was the USA's buddy.

If you're looking for anything that's consistant about US behavior, it would be the support for US-based Big Oil.... not democracy...

PS. Here's a good link that will document the USA's sale of Antrax, Mustard Gas components, cyanide, and much more... I'm sure you'll really enjoy reading it..

Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement

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Mopek, the US supports Israel because it is the only democracy in the Mid East (except for Iraq now).  Democracies tend to stick together. 
Montgomery: The USA has a deal with Saudi Arabia to PREVENT DEMOCRACY from ever threatening the Saudi royal family....

Evidence?

The USA organized and executed a coup to take out the democratically elected Mossadegh government in Iran and placed the Shah of Iran in power in the 1950s.  Does this sound "pro-democracy".

This is like saying Adolph Hitler was democratically elected, so anyone who opposed him must be an enemy of democracy. Oh not that Mossadegh was Hitler, by any means, but his government was certainly not democratic by the time he was ousted from power. And the Shah had already been there. He was the constitutional head of state. After Mossadegh dissolved parliament to rule as a dictator he moved against the Shah, who fled the country, returning after the coup.

And if you'll remember, (but I suspect your selective memory will not) Saddam Hussain was the USA's buddy.

Evidence?

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