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Hudson Jones

Islamophobia in Canada

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drummindiver, unfortunately I can't debate with you when it comes to any religion as I know nothing about them except what I have been told by Muslims that they are instructed to respect other religions like Christianity and Judiasm, That said in all the quotes that you claim is coming from Koran (and I can't verify or deny that because of my self confessed lack of knowledge) I do NOT see a single line or sentence encouraging believers to kill Christians or Jews. It does say non-believers which is VERY LIKELY refers to those who do not believe in God (infidels), Again based on everything that I have heard Christians and Jews are NOT considered by Muslims even the fanatics to be non-believers as they both believe in God they believe in. Same God.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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Lol if I want to list all those (drug use and addictions, prostitution/exploitation, pimping,, adultery, wife/girlfriend battering and abuse, sexual assaults and rapes and incest) all over the world past 30 days by individuals IT WOULD BE SEVERAL THOUSAND PAGES. And btw, from what you have listed most of the terror attacks are happening within the Muslim countries not in the west.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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drummindiver, unfortunately I can't debate with you when it comes to any religion as I know nothing about them except what I have been told by Muslims that they are instructed to respect other religions like Christianity and Judiasm, That said in all the quotes that you say is coming from Koran (and I can't verify or deny that because of my self confessed lack of knowledge) I do NOT see a single line or sentence encouraging believers to kill Christians or Jews. It does say non-believers which is VERY LIKELY refers to those who do not believe in God (infidels), Again based on everything that I have heard Christians and Jews are NOT considered by Muslims even the fanatics to be non-believers as they both believe in God. Same God.

If you don't believe in Allah, you are infidel. Doesn't matter if you believe in another god or not.

This is why their belief that Islam is the last real religion is so dangerous.

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Lol if I want to list all those (drug use and addictions, prostitution/exploitation, pimping,, adultery, wife/girlfriend battering and abuse, sexual assaults and rapes and incest) all over the world past 30 days by individuals IT WOULD BE SEVERAL THOUSAND PAGES. And btw, from what you have listed most of the terror attacks are happening within the Muslim countries not in the west.

I don't find this funny. And what does religious murder have to do with all the things you are talking about?

Were they all done by Christians? Atheist? Martians?

You are making excuses for murder done in the name of religion.

Please, find me how many have died due to Christian or other religious beliefs in the last 30 days.

Maybe a few.

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If you don't believe in Allah, you are infidel. Doesn't matter if you believe in another god or not.

This is why their belief that Islam is the last real religion is so dangerous.

As little as I know BUT I know this much that what you have posted above is NOT true (and I hesitate to use stronger word). Allah in Islam is same as God which is believed to also have sent other prophets like Christ and Moses, So those who don't believe in Allah are referred to as those who don't believe in God.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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drummindiver, unfortunately I can't debate with you when it comes to any religion as I know nothing about them except what I have been told by Muslims that they are instructed to respect other religions like Christianity and Judiasm, That said in all the quotes that you claim is coming from Koran (and I can't verify or deny that because of my self confessed lack of knowledge) I do NOT see a single line or sentence encouraging believers to kill Christians or Jews. It does say non-believers which is VERY LIKELY refers to those who do not believe in God (infidels), Again based on everything that I have heard Christians and Jews are NOT considered by Muslims even the fanatics to be non-believers as they both believe in God they believe in. Same God.

Been told by Muslims?

Please, google the word taqiyya.

Hell, I'll save you the trouble. It tells muslims to lie to advance Islam.

This ideology actually has a term for it's followers to lie on it's behalf to promote it.

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I don't find this funny. And what does religious murder have to do with all the things you are talking about?

Were they all done by Christians? Atheist? Martians?

You are making excuses for murder done in the name of religion.

Please, find me how many have died due to Christian or other religious beliefs in the last 30 days.

Maybe a few.

It wasn't meant to be funny but instructive. What I was trying to say is that EVIL EXISTS IN ALL SOCIETIES western or Islamic. Now one may argue that rape or assault or pimping/exploitation (in western societies) is not as evil as religious murder, well that is debatable but please don't accuse me of justifying murder in the name of religion. I am trying to point out some facts. They may not have died much past 30 days solely on Christian grounds but tens of millions likely hundreds of millions died last century and billions more centuries before that (due to Christianity) and I did give a recent Nazi Germany or even more recent Serbia as examples.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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As little as I know BUT I know this much that what you have posted above is NOT true (and I hesitate to use stronger word). Allah in Islam is same as God which is believed to also have sent other prophets like Christ and Moses, So those who don't believe in Allah are referred to as those who don't believe in God.

As little as I know BUT I know this much that what you have posted above is NOT true (and I hesitate to use stronger word). Allah in Islam is same as God which is believed to also have sent other prophets like Christ and Moses, So those who don't believe in Allah are referred to as those who don't believe in God

Islamic

Infidel is an English language word commonly used to translate the equivalent Arabic language word for non-Muslims; kafir (sometimes "kaafir", "kufr" or "kuffar"), and the equivalent Turkish loanword gâvur, literally the one who "covers" and "conceals", is usually translated as "infidel" and "disbeliever".[17][18][19] Other terms sometimes synonymously used in Islamic literature for infidel are shirk, mushirk, and mushrikun.[20][21]

In the earliest recited verses of the Qur'an, such as Al-Kafirun, the term kafir simply divided the Meccan community into believers and unbelievers. In later recited verses, particularly those recited after the Hijra in 622 AD, the concept of infidel - kafir - was expanded upon, with Jews and Christians included.[22] The expanded term kafir refers to anyone who satisfies one or more of the following conditions - practices idolatry of any form, does not accept the absolute oneness of God, denies Muhammed as Prophet, ignores God's ayah (evidence or signs), or rejects belief in resurrection and final judgment.[22][23][24] Jews were condemned as infidels for their disbelief in God's ayah, Christians were condemned as infidels for their belief in the Trinity, which the Qur'an declared as a form of polytheism.[22][23][24][25] Texts of Sunni sect of Islam, the majority, include other sects of Islam such as Shia as infidel.[17][26] Certain sects of Islam, such as Wahhabism, include as kafir those Muslims who undertake Sufi shrine pilgrimage and follow Shia teachings about Imams.[27][28][29] Similarly, in Africa and South Asia, certain sects of Islam such as Hausas, Ahmadi, Akhbaris have been repeatedly declared as Kufir or infidels by other sects of Muslims

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It wasn't meant to be funny but instructive. What I was trying to say is that EVIL EXISTS IN ALL SOCIETIES western or Islamic. Now one may argue that rape or assault or pimping/exploitation (in western societies) is not as evil as religious murder, well that is debatable but please don't accuse me of justifying murder in the name of religion. I am trying to point out some facts. They may not have died much past 30 days solely on Christian grounds but tens of millions likely hundreds of millions died last century and billions more centuries before that (due to Christianity) and I did give a recent Nazi Germany or even more recent Serbia as examples.

Again, you asked for Islamic examples.

I gave you that, and you chose to make light or ignore the facts.

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The plan to bring in refugees is being called 'reckless', 'too hasty', 'too dangerous'. Yet, people have generally don't know what security measures are in place or security measures that are planned. How can anyone determine if a plan is reckless if they don't even know what the plan is? You may fault me for raising concerns that you think are unrelated, but I fault you for characterizing a plan about which you currently know very little as 'reckless'.

Let's hope sometime within the next 43 days JT and the Liberal party let everyone in on this mysterious detailed plan that he surely must have in place to accomplish this feat. It would likely take more time than that to renew a Canadian passport; describing the promise of bringing in 25,000 refugees from a country such as Syria as "reckless" and "too hasty" seems entirely fitting absent any detail whatsoever on what the plan is going to be.

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So you say you read Koran but you did NOT answer the second part of my question. Did you comes across any writing or instructions in there to kill Christians or Jews?

I would have to check.

I will guess that it is just us atheists/pagans/FSM worshippers who are infidels and for which the Koran talks about quite about with respect to killing.

I also recall verses about killing for many many other reasons too but I have little reason to look any of this up as the Koran, like the Bible, is a POS book not worth reading. It PO's me that for cultural reasons one should read these texts to find out just how awful they are because of their awful influence on humanity. But then, I have read Marx and Hitler too which is also awful POS stuff.

Nevertheless, I find that a strange question since I value all lives no matter what someone believes (unless I must defend myself from that person in which case I clearly value my life over that person's and will defend myself). But since I'm an atheist of course I would assume that all human lives are equal.

Btw, Christian Europe 623 years ago was no better when it came to barbarism considering that Islam comes over 600 years after Christianity meaning Christianity has had more years (centuries) to evolve.

Uh, yeah, that's my point.

I would not say Christianity has evolved - had the West not gone through the enlightenment I think we would still be as bad as many modern day Muslim societies.

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Yes I guess all those things (flogging, stoning, genital mutilation, child sex by marrying young females ....) can happen in Muslim countries and happening (though many muslims likely the majority rejects all these or do not practice them. Remember in Islamic dictatorships governments are not elected so their actions don't represent their people) as they were practiced in Christian Europe too for centuries.

On the other hand some things like drug use and addictions, prostitution/exploitation, pimping,, adultery, wife/girlfriend battering and abuse, sexual assaults and rapes and incest ...and the list goes on... happening in the so called non-savage (or so called civilized) western societies but similarly though the majority of westerners rejects all those or do no practice it.

The difference is that we call the latter civilized and you called the former as savages. In my view those who practice or believe either are both savages but only those who practice them not the majority (of Muslims or westerners) who don't believe in or don't practice them. I don't condemn the entire western civilization for the evil actions of the small minority and neither should you paint every Muslim with same brush and condemn the Islamic nations as savages for the evil actions of small minority.

Why do you accuse me personally of calling them savages and of painting them all with the same brush? I was just playing devil's advocate here explaining why so many people feel that way.

However, I do think that Muslims fail to make effort enough to fit into our society. It takes two sides, you know, to reach a compromise.

Immigrants in the past have made great efforts to 'fit in'. It was the unified efforts of so many different cultures working together toward a common society that made Canada such a desirable place to live. Some have even gone so far as to change their names to sound more 'Canadian'. Muslims appear to flaunt their differences and while they have that right, in a free society, it does rankle a lot of people especially other immigrants who have gladly made personal sacrifices out of thankfulness to be here.

I might add that the brutal things that happen in in the 'so-called civilized western societies" are illegal and punishable by law, not sanctioned by law as they are in the Islamic countries.

Edited by notca

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Again, you asked for Islamic examples.

I gave you that, and you chose to make light or ignore the facts.

I called it EVIL in all my posts and that is because the use of stronger F word is not permitted on the board and rightly so so what else did you want me to call it. I think you are mad because I have pointed out WITH EXAMPLES that evil also exists in western societies so to ALL THOSE who regards Islamic countries as uncivilized or Muslims as savages (and some may be I even agreed to that but only those who practice or believe in what you listed not all) clean up your own backyard (and I listed the ills or evils of western societies again practiced by small minorities) before calling other societies who may be different as savages.

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Yes I guess all those things (flogging, stoning, genital mutilation, child sex by marrying young females ....) can happen in Muslim countries and happening (though many muslims likely the majority rejects all these or do not practice them. Remember in Islamic dictatorships governments are not elected so their actions don't represent their people) as they were practiced in Christian Europe too for centuries.

On the other hand some things like drug use and addictions, prostitution/exploitation, pimping,, adultery, wife/girlfriend battering and abuse, sexual assaults and rapes and incest ...and the list goes on... happening in the so called non-savage (or so called civilized) western societies but similarly though the majority of westerners rejects all those or do no practice it.

The difference is that we call the latter civilized and you called the former as savages. In my view those who practice or believe either are both savages but only those who practice them not the majority (of Muslims or westerners) who don't believe in or don't practice them. I don't condemn the entire western civilization for the evil actions of the small minority and neither should you paint every Muslim with same brush and condemn the Islamic nations as savages for the evil actions of small minority.

Why do you accuse me personally of calling them savages and of painting them all with the same brush? I was just playing devil's advocate here explaining why so many people feel that way.

However, I do think that Muslims fail to make effort enough to fit into our society. It takes two sides, you know, to reach a compromise.

Immigrants in the past have made great efforts to 'fit in'. It was the unified efforts of so many different cultures working together toward a common society that made Canada such a desirable place to live. Some have even gone so far as to change their names to sound more 'Canadian'. Muslims appear to flaunt their differences and while they have that right, in a free society, it does rankle a lot of people especially other immigrants who have gladly made personal sacrifices out of thankfulness to be here.

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Here's a question for the lefties; When news broke about a terrorist attack in Paris, where did your mind go, who did you suspect was involved? Christians, Jews, Buddists, Russians, Americans, computer geeks, red heads...who?

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Why do you accuse me personally of calling them savages and of painting them all with the same brush?

No it wasn't you it was another poster but I replied to him while quoting your post so gave the impression that it was meant for you. My apology.

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I called it EVIL in all my posts and that is because the use of stronger F word is not permitted on the board and rightly so so what else did you want me to call it. I think you are mad because I have pointed out WITH EXAMPLES that evil also exists in western societies so to ALL THOSE who regards Islamic countries as uncivilized or Muslims as savages (and some may be I even agreed to that but only those who practice or believe in what you listed not all) clean up your own backyard (and I listed the ills or evils of western societies again practiced by small minorities) before calling other societies who may be different as savages.

Sorry, I'm not mad, and I don't really understand this post of yours.

I have read several versions of the bible as well as the Qu'ran, and don't defend either religion, as I am an atheist.

If you want to get an idea of where muslim extremism is coming from, may I suggest reading the book Milestones by

Sayyd Qutb.

"Islam cannot accept or agree to a situation which is half-Islam and half-Jahiliyyah ... The mixing and co-existence of the truth and falsehood is impossible."

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No it wasn't you it was another poster but I replied to him while quoting your post so gave the impression that it was meant for you. My apology.

..if you were referring to me, I most certainly never called anybody a savage.

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Here's a question for the lefties; When news broke about a terrorist attack in Paris, where did your mind go, who did you suspect was involved? Christians, Jews, Buddists, Russians, Americans, computer geeks, red heads...who?

I am not lefties but do believe in equality and in a fairer distribution of wealth (though strongly believe in capital punishment, lower immigration quotas and fiscal policies and free trade and secularism and liberal attitudes), nevertheless I respond to your question. In my mind it was the work of Muslim terrorists. in particular ISIS. Those deviated from Islam that even the president of an Islamic republic called them criminals against humanity.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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..if you were referring to me, I most certainly never called anybody a savage.

Sorry but I said in my post very clearly I wasn't referring to you but another poster!!!!!! Same post that you quoted!!!!!. and I apologized. I am not sure how else I could clarify that!!!

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I wonder if the people who feign indignation at someone in full Muslim garb being pushed to the ground would be equally offended if someone wearing full KKK regalia was knocked over? Would you be upset if you heard that a neo-Nazi headquarters was burned down? I mean, perhaps that was a moderate Klansman? Moderate Nazis maybe? Not all Hell's Angels get involved in criminal activities you know.

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I wonder if the people who feign indignation at someone in full Muslim garb being pushed to the ground would be equally offended if someone wearing full KKK regalia was knocked over? Would you be upset if you heard that a neo-Nazi headquarters was burned down? I mean, perhaps that was a moderate Klansman? Moderate Nazis maybe? Not all Hell's Angels get involved in criminal activities you know.

I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

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Here's a question for the lefties; When news broke about a terrorist attack in Paris, where did your mind go, who did you suspect was involved? Christians, Jews, Buddists, Russians, Americans, computer geeks, red heads...who?

So, Nobody is gonna step up and tell us how shocked they were to find out the terrorist attack was conducted by muslims?

Didn't think so!

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I wonder if the people who feign indignation at someone in full Muslim garb being pushed to the ground would be equally offended if someone wearing full KKK regalia was knocked over? Would you be upset if you heard that a neo-Nazi headquarters was burned down? I mean, perhaps that was a moderate Klansman? Moderate Nazis maybe? Not all Hell's Angels get involved in criminal activities you know.

I'm only quoting this for Boges in case he needs a reference of people saying all Muslims are terrorists.

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Since most of the world is at war with the Muslims or should I say SOME called terrorists, isn't it natural for one to think at first? Of course, it could be hired Muslims working for the CIA like Bin Laden was to expand the war in the ME to invade, destroy and conquer and I could be wrong but did u think a plane would fly into the tower in NY? It's a very nasty world we live in today.

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