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GostHacked

The Jordan Peterson phenomenon

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I don't even know what the fuck you talking about...Boogeyman?  You have become a complete troll!  Congratulations, you are exactly what people thought you were while you were a moderator.  Trying to have a grown up conversation with you is infuriating, You throw out trolling posts - really, you're no better than Onmi now.

Edited by Hal 9000

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4 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

I think if you asked Peterson, he would classify himself as a liberal and center left.  His obvious frustration is that the left has gone so far left that anyone who is not lock step with the Trudeau or Pelosi types are considered right leaning. 

I sure hope Peterson drops his other shoe someday. I can't help but laugh at how often I've been classified along with Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao by conservatives.  I mean just the other day I made a comment in a discussion in the real world about providing some affordable housing in Tofino and was reminded they tried that in the  Soviet Union and look what happened there.

Its probably a good thing I didn't have a shovel handy.

  • Haha 1

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I sure hope Peterson drops his other shoe someday. I can't help but laugh at how often I've been classified along with Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao by conservatives.  I mean just the other day I made a comment in a discussion in the real world about providing some affordable housing in Tofino and was reminded they tried that in the  Soviet Union and look what happened there.

Its probably a good thing I didn't have a shovel handy.

Maybe it's an age thing.  Maybe some of you are too young to remember actual freedom.  I honestly think things are racially worse off than in the past, and I've never seen the division between the sexes that we're seeing now.  Now, maybe the argument is "well, minorities and women are fighting back now", but it's not a global or national aspect that i'm referring to, it's in everyday niceties between people that seem to be gone.  Men, and I know there will forced shock from some of you, feel outright disdain from women, even strangers on a regular basis and blacks  and whites are getting tribal with each other.  In the 80's we were all just "people", now we're all a subsection and stereotyped by everyone who is in a different subsection.  This identity politics that Peterson talks about is certainly happening, and yes, Ill agree with him that it's dangerous.

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27 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Maybe it's an age thing.  Maybe some of you are too young to remember actual freedom. 

Nah, I think some of you are just so old your minds have turned to mush.

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42 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

FFS, You people are absolutely inept!

Compared to people who can't come up with anything but references to Stalin or Mao or age when discussing anything with a lefty?

Why does every fucking right-winger feel this incessant need to act like they were Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh?

Edited by eyeball

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7 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nah, I think some of you are just so old your minds have turned to mush.

Old people are the ones who forget.  I was having a debate with some rube who said the world was turning 'left'.

This after 30-years of trickle-down economics, of universal healthcare rolled back in the US, increasing disparity... the list goes on and on.  "Old" doesn't mean "wise".  Sometimes "old" means "stupid".

Case in point: the NDP was, in this generation, committed to NATIONALIZING industries as party policy.  Thirty years ago, the government ran an oil company, its gas stations, an airline and a chain of hotels.

If you and I live 20 more years, the wise young people are going to turn the clock back.  Those dummies who don't understand that their CPP, their 5-day work week came from social activism of 90 years ago will get a front row seat.

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6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Why does every fucking right-winger feel this incessant need to act like they were Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh?

Play-acting is something we learn as children, and it's a good go-to if you want to feel good about yourself.  Rush is on his way down, though.  Once the bad-boy of the right, so outrageous that he made liberals like me apoplectic he now can't compete with the real crazies like Alex Jones.  

JP is a step towards conservatives actually regaining broad support again, and god forbid somebody might actually stumble on centrism once more...

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13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm going to stop you there.  The President himself calls the far-right "fine people" and you have a Holocaust denier running for the Republicans.  Your leftist bogeyman have a sum total of zero power, except as FOX News fuel for the mill.

Tell me where this far left power is again.

Let's stick to things north of the 49th.  The left/right is a bit different up here.

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15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm going to stop you there.  The President himself calls the far-right "fine people" and you have a Holocaust denier running for the Republicans.  Your leftist bogeyman have a sum total of zero power, except as FOX News fuel for the mill.

Tell me where this far left power is again.

Your argument is absurd. The far right are a raggedy assed, mostly rural mob that couldn't fill a hockey arena.  The only reason the holocaust denier is running for the Republicans is because nobody else put their name in the hat and they don't appear to have a process for party leaders approval of candidates similar to Canadian parties.

And Jordan Peterson is Canadian and the discussion is mostly about Canada...

As to the Left. I would say almost the entire continuum of Western cultural creaters: the moviemakers, TV makers, news media, artists, playrights, writers, all of it is very strongly Left in its political views, and pushes those views relentlessly through all forms of entertainment and media. Academia, which is training the next generation of the bourgeois, is even more strongly Left of center and even more intolerant of views which don't embrace their collective ideological beliefs.

In Canada, where exactly does one even find a right of center power base or even influence? I can't think of any.

In the US, Trump is not right of center. He's got no ideological views at all. The Republican party is not right of center either. They're a group of political whores who vote whatever way the power brokers tell them to, and use hot button social issues to lure votes from the idiots of the religious right. It's likely Trump has so damaged the brand that he will be the last Republican president for a very long time.

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6 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Let's stick to things north of the 49th.  The left/right is a bit different up here.

Ok, fair enough:

"Agreed, however western society is not being pulled to the far right, it's being pulled far left. "

Far left ?  We had a good few years of Harper and now Trudeau.  I would say that he's left socially, but "far left" to me means increased levels of income transfer, nationalization of businesses.  But obviously such things are relative. 

What do you think 'far left' in Canada means ?  Just the social bit ?  It's easier to agree if that's what we are talking about.

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3 hours ago, Argus said:

In Canada, where exactly does one even find a right of center power base or even influence? I can't think of any.

As I said to GH, if we're talking about social policy, it's easier to say Canada has gone 'far left' although that's still not absolute.  There are plenty of places in the world with social policies to the left of ours.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

As I said to GH, if we're talking about social policy, it's easier to say Canada has gone 'far left' although that's still not absolute.  There are plenty of places in the world with social policies to the left of ours.

Yes, but the Canadian continuum is not the same as the Europeans or the Americans. Our line would be further to the Left than the Americans and further to the Right than the Europeans. Are we to say ours is illegitimate and we have to base our assessment of variance from the center on someone else's line? How of you feel about putting migrants into camps until their hearing? They do that in Australia, which in some respects is further to the left on some issues and in others further to the right than we are.

We all have our centres, and by what has been our traditional centrist view the Liberals have moved beyond their traditional location at centre/left and moved almost wholly to the Left, which means some of their idea, such as the new one about forcing all private companies to use affirmative action quotas to staff their boards, are certainly far left.

Edited by Argus

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26 minutes ago, Argus said:

as the new one about forcing all private companies to use affirmative action quotas to staff their boards, are certainly far left.

Boards, schmoards.  That seems like a symbolic gesture but ok.  Also let's see if it happens.

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On 2/8/2018 at 3:54 PM, Michael Hardner said:

As I said to GH, if we're talking about social policy, it's easier to say Canada has gone 'far left' although that's still not absolute.  There are plenty of places in the world with social policies to the left of ours.

True, but does not mean we need to go down that road.

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On 2/8/2018 at 3:53 PM, Michael Hardner said:

What do you think 'far left' in Canada means ?  Just the social bit ?  It's easier to agree if that's what we are talking about.

I don't like the terms left or right, and I have stated that many times on this board. Having the left and far-left is another means to be divisive.

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3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

True, but does not mean we need to go down that road.

I agree.  'Hard left' is an odd term for me, but maybe social policy is really all that's left to go left.

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15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree.  'Hard left' is an odd term for me, but maybe social policy is really all that's left to go left.

To a lot of conservatives the entire left is hard.   it's like recreational drug abuse...it's never viewed as simple use but always abuse.  You see the same thing in the view towards Islam that holds there is no such thing as a moderate and where everyone of them is a radical that wants to behead you. If you're for public health-care its only because you're a card carrying member of the Khmer Rouge.  See how it works?

Edited by eyeball

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On 2/8/2018 at 2:21 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Boards, schmoards.  That seems like a symbolic gesture but ok.  Also let's see if it happens.

Do you think choosing a cabinet by means of affirmative action is a small thing.  Choosing our ministers based on their visible identity group is a sure path to divisiveness.

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20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

To a lot of conservatives the entire left is hard.   it's like recreational drug abuse...it's never viewed as simple use but always abuse.  You see the same thing in the view towards Islam that holds there is no such thing as a moderate and where everyone of them is a radical that wants to behead you. If you're for public health-care its only because you're a card carrying member of the Khmer Rouge.  See how it works?

We see that kind of thing play out here often on this forum. 

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4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Do you think choosing a cabinet by means of affirmative action is a small thing.  Choosing our ministers based on their visible identity group is a sure path to divisiveness.

And at that point we are filling a quota to have a certain group represented. I simply want the best person for the job.  Do women want to be in politics? Or is it another area where there is not a lot of interest from women to hold government representative positions, like an MP and such? Getting down the notion that men and women simply have different interests when it comes to a long term career.

And from what I heard, there is about 20% of females in the government representative roles. That'd gonna be hard to push up to 50% even in his own cabinet.  But why not go farther?  I would like out of that 50%  a third white women, a third black women, and another third of native women. If he is really concerned about true representation.

Edited by GostHacked

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

See how it works?

I get that part.  I don't get how they all turn leftist without saying so.  Anti law-enforcement, anti trade, pro deficit.  Explain me that Professor Eyeball.

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The problem is right there in the names, it's not really a secret.  By virtue of their name, "conservatives" conserve, they want thing to remain the same or move at a manageable pace, move organically in what society needs.  Liberalism and progressiveness are names and movements that must maintain a certain momentum...and always left.  Every liberal/progressive is more radical than the liberals before them.  A liberal or progressive can't stop otherwise they become conservatives. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I get that part.  I don't get how they all turn leftist without saying so.  Anti law-enforcement, anti trade, pro deficit.  Explain me that Professor Eyeball.

Its mostly un-left people who tell you who and what lefties are.

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35 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

By virtue of their name, "conservatives" conserve,

Really? So what part of conserve is that so many conservatives don't get when it comes to conserving the environment?

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